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Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

ilga.gov

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Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#371

Post by array_key_first »

strongpigeon wrote: post #28

People here seem very against this, but I don't really see it. This only require to have a form asking about your age and provide an API to read it, right? Surely I'm missing something? Is the backlash due to fear of a slippery slope?

I think the implication is that this law is incredibly bad. I don't mean for privacy, I mean for fulfilling it's purpose. This will prevent approximately zero kids from accessing whatever.

What that means is that we will have to amp it up, if we want to achieve it's purpose. So, that's not a slippery slope, that's a prophecy.

When we get cryptographically backed identity verification on all computing, that will legitimately be the end of computing as we know it.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#372

Post by bitwize »

tzs wrote: post #300
exabrial wrote: post #5

Why suddenly are all of the blue states doing this BS? What is going on and what control is this affording the government?

A few people have replied saying Meta lobbying, but the bills Meta is known to have lobbied for seem to be the ones that require actual age verification that would tend to increase the amount of personal data Meta gets. Meta's lobbying spending is cited for states not doing that kind of bill, but that's their total lobbying spending in that state. These new bills in the style of the California one do not require any…

Because Meta's got the government breathing down their neck to confirm that everyone who interacts with their site is of appropriate age due to COPPA. They don't want to do that kind of verification themselves so they're backing legislation to compel the OS to do it.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#373

Post by bitwize »

anonym29 wrote: post #94
gruez wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except for during covid, where there was a weird reversal.

I don't even know if that was much of a "reversal". Blue states were paternalistic over both your property (business and social gathering shutdowns) and your body (masking, social distancing enforcement), while red states (particularly Texas, Florida) were very laissez-faire for both. What's perplexing about this is that research has generally correlated higher amygdala activity (fear/worry) with political conservati…

When progressives become the status quo, they turn into conservatives. There's a meme going around about a 1950s Soviet communist vs. a 2020s American communist, and their diametrically opposed views on things like LGBTQ and immigration.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#374

Post by MidnightRider39 »

array_key_first wrote: post #368
marcus_holmes wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we have some kind of control to stop your router from connecting to Adult Internet DNS? Because the difficult bit here is not allowing connections to the Kid Internet, but stopping connections to the Adult Internet. How do we decide what sites resolve as part of the Kid Internet? Is there some process where a site submits itself for approval to be part of the Adult Internet? How do we stop the government from usin…

> So we have some kind of control to stop your router from connecting to Adult Internet DNS? Yes, all routers currently have this built-in. Most software outside of routers does, too. Will it be perfect? No. But, for example, this is how content filters work at schools and just about every workplace. And it seems to be good enough for them. And, this will work better than that. Because the key point is we're not blac…

> content filters work at schools

Maybe they are vastly more sophisticated now but when I was a kid it was a sport for us to break these filters - and pretty easy too

It would imo be much easier to effect a culture change so that not every kid needs or gets access to the internet or internet capable devices.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#375

Post by tstrimple »

intrasight wrote: post #127
gruez wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They could require government ID to sign up and an adult sponsor to certify accounts for kids. Plus a limit on how many accounts an adult can sponsor. Requiring all online account creation to go through some government vouching system sounds far worse for privacy than OS doing age verification.

OS-based age verification would also have to use a government ID. There is no alternatives to a government ID for such verification.

You're wrong. These laws aren't very long. You should read them instead of just passing around incorrect assumptions.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#376

Post by array_key_first »

MidnightRider39 wrote: post #374
array_key_first wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So we have some kind of control to stop your router from connecting to Adult Internet DNS? Yes, all routers currently have this built-in. Most software outside of routers does, too. Will it be perfect? No. But, for example, this is how content filters work at schools and just about every workplace. And it seems to be good enough for them. And, this will work better than that. Because the key point is we're not blac…

> content filters work at schools Maybe they are vastly more sophisticated now but when I was a kid it was a sport for us to break these filters - and pretty easy too It would imo be much easier to effect a culture change so that not every kid needs or gets access to the internet or internet capable devices.

Yes, they are more sophisticated, or at least I'm assuming from how pi-hole and my workplace blocking works. Meaning, it works.

But those are not the best solutions, because of blacklisting. There are basically infinite porn websites. So, if you're going to try to block every porn website, you will lose, point blank.

So, even considering that, they do quite good. So if we just take the principle and invert it, it will be very good.

I mean, whitelisting vs blacklisting is why I am able to open my computer up to the internet via SSH. I'm not out here blocking 1 billion sites. No, I'm just allowing my laptop. And that gives me a lot of confidence, and it works.

And, I agree with culture change. But, culture change is very hard and I don't think it's something we can rely on.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#378

Post by openclaw01 »

iinnPP wrote: post #204
zuminator wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a couple of ways that could go down. One way is that you log in under a guest account and the guest account requires you to indicate your age. After your session is over, guest account logs out. Another way is that the library has two sets of computers, ones set for adults, ones set for minors. You need access card to use computer and the librarian will give you the age-appropriate access card. Another way is…

It's been a while but as a 12 year old I completely broke the library system, installed cracked Starcraft, and refroze DeepFreeze afterwards. Not to counteract your point, just as an anecdote I like remembering.

[dead]

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#379

Post by davorak »

autoexec wrote: post #270
davorak wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now that you know that facebook isn't pushing this law to protect anyone's anonymity why do you think they're doing it? My comment was not about what I knew/know about facebook or not. I was answering the question of why age verification should be externalized to a degree and in this case externalized means the power stays with the user and parents rather than being in the hands of say facebook/meta. I was not talk…

The point is that you can't just externalize age verification and expect that data to never be sent to facebook because facebook needs that data to do anything (good or bad). It doesn't matter if your OS broadcasts that your child is 6-9 to facebook or if facebook has to ask the government to tell them that same information, either way, in the end facebook will know that your child is 6-9. The power is then in facebo…

> The point is that you can't just externalize age verification and expect that data to never be sent to facebook

facebook and similar social media companies have a ton of ways to get peoples age and or to narrow it down.

> either way, in the end facebook will know that your child is 6-9.

The main point of the law is not about restricting facebook or similar operator in the laws lanuage from knowing user ages. Though the does say the age bracket can not be used for anything other than to implement the intent of the law.

> The power is then in facebook's hands. Facebook won't see a copy of their government issued ID, but what difference does that make when they've got their age, their selfies, and a list of every friend and family member.

May not matter much for facebook or similar, it matters a bunch for any random website/forum/service you might sign up for where the intent of the service is not about public posting that sort of personal infromation.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#380

Post by dredmorbius »

NotGMan wrote: post #13
Slow_Hand wrote: post #7

If I’m not mistaken, Meta has been lobbying heavily for all of these age-verification bills lately. It seems their strategy is to externalize their responsibility to verify age themselves, and thus reduce their exposure to liabilities when child protection acts like COPPA are violated.

Yes https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/1rsn1tm/it_a...

And discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47410870>.
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