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Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

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Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#371

Post by sneak »

bentt wrote: post #318

I've often thought that in the USA we could use a type of crime that's called "Betrayal of the Public Trust". It is reserved specifically for public servants and elected officials. The idea is that if you choose to do that job, it is contingent on the public's trust. If you betray that trust it is important to recognize that specifically. This should include harsher sentencing. This should be a deterrent to those who…

Why would those who benefit from this crime ever outlaw it for themselves and their buddies? It makes no sense at all. Laws are only ever passed for a reason.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#372

Post by [deleted] »

sneak wrote: post #370
gmd63 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested to hear your informed thoughts on why corruption charges still exist in China if everyone there knows how corruption is happening.

Selective enforcement of widely broken laws is one of the primary sources of control in an autocracy.

[deleted]

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#373

Post by [deleted] »

sneak wrote: post #370
gmd63 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested to hear your informed thoughts on why corruption charges still exist in China if everyone there knows how corruption is happening.

Selective enforcement of widely broken laws is one of the primary sources of control in an autocracy.

[deleted]

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#374

Post by gmd63 »

sneak wrote: post #370
gmd63 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested to hear your informed thoughts on why corruption charges still exist in China if everyone there knows how corruption is happening.

Selective enforcement of widely broken laws is one of the primary sources of control in an autocracy.

Xi Jinping has disciplined millions of officials as part of his anti-corruption campaign. That cannot be some corrupt way to silence dissidents while being popular with an allegedly corruption-omniscient citizenry.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#376

Post by gzread »

hunterpayne wrote: post #360
jojomodding wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for the 12k arrested in the UK? I'm asking because all I could find was a list on Twitter that didn't cite any sources itself and also had very implausible numbers (including he 12k/year for the UK). Implausible based on the lived reality of friends of mine living in e.g. the UK or Germany.

Its an extrapolation based upon UK government arrest figures. It assumes everyone arrested ended up in jail. I have no idea if that is true or not but there are already plenty of documented cases of jail time for social media posts. Hope this helps. PS 12k a year is more people than Russia jails a year for speech violations.

What were the people saying?

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#377

Post by seivan »

LtWorf wrote: post #339
ACS_Solver wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very well said. I live in Sweden, one of the world's highest-trust societies, but I have experience from a more corrupt environment and my whole family lived most of their lives in a corrupt autocracy. This means that in a corrupt society, it's extremely difficult as an individual not to participate. The corruption isn't something that happens at some level, it's a core part of the economy. If you try to do things by…

I'd say sweden is quite corrupt but the population is very blind to it. See for example how an horrible pink "sculpture" could cost over 8 million euros.

[dead]

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#378

Post by jongjong »

mycall wrote: post #369
yason wrote: post #130

It's well known that in authoritarian regimes (which autocracies generally are) corruption is, rather than a problem, a necessary element of society to keep things going. Anyone with the slightest amount of official power, like a government officer, has the ability to prevent things going forward on his part. In this kind of society, most people are poor and it would be considered stupid to not demand a small (or lar…

How much does what you describe have to do with the continuous compounding of laws? Since 1976, on average 220 new laws are enacted by Congress per year, but this is additive as most laws do not sunset or get repealed. Also, the complexity and length of newer laws have exploded. All of this suggests more control over people and follows the tension between the rule of law and rule by law.

Yeah it's like coding with CSS. If you keep adding more rules eventually stuff starts breaking and nobody knows how to fix it.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#379

Post by Jensson »

pixl97 wrote: post #340
tines wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Access to corruption is never widely understood and accessible to every person, otherwise it would be written into law and stated plainly for everyone to see. This is an uninformed non-sequitur. In China or Mexico for example, it's well known that to get certain things done you have to bribe local officials. The central government is against corruption by policy, but nevertheless corruption is endemic. It's only "i…

Just because you understand the government is corrupt doesn't mean you understand the corruption

But the corruption is still available to you, and you use it as a part of daily life. Not all corruption but some.

Re: Corruption erodes social trust more in democracies than in autocracies

#380

Post by matheusmoreira »

ACS_Solver wrote: post #242
btilly wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I commented elsewhere, the Russian name for this is blat. It isn't just corruption. It is a personal trust network for getting things done, that you can't get done if you follow the official rules. You get what you need through corruption, and your ability to do so strengthens your trust in your personal network. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn86C4ZwBSg for an excellent explanation of it. And also an explan…

Right. And oh my do I hate blat. It's a difficult concept to translate to English because it's not synonymous with corruption or bribes. A one-time bribe transaction isn't blat. You want a school to accept your kid so you "gift" the school some supplies, that's not blat, it's a one-time thing and the school principal doesn't owe you any additional favors. Blat is more like a social network of people trading favors, a…

> It's a difficult concept to translate to English

> Blat is more like a social network of people trading favors

It's like Vito Corleone in Godfather but applied to an entire society.

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