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Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

terriblesoftware.org

371–380 of 534 posts

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#371
post #73

I had an interview question. What would you do if two different people were emailing a spreadsheet back and forth to track something? I said I’d move them to google sheets. There was about five minutes of awkwardness after that as I was interviewing for software developer. I was supposed to talk about what kind of tool I’d build. I found it kind of eye opening but I’m still not sure what the right lesson to learn was…

Having been both the interviewer and the candidate in this kind of situation, this is really a big interviewer training failure. The general way to handle this as an interviewer is really simple: acknowledge that the interviewee gave a good answer, but ask that for the purposes of evaluating their technical design skills that you'd like for them to design a new system/code a new implementation to solve this problem.…

I prefer pushing the constraints to motivate a different solution instead of asking them to do an unmotivated exercise.

“Google Sheets is a great solution for two people, but let’s say the department expands and now it’s ten people. How does this change your answer?”

It’s easy to break Google Sheets as a workflow by increasing the number of users, adding complex business logic, etc.

It’s interesting to see what candidates come up with and how they think. Sometimes the solutions are genuinely interesting. Mostly they’re not, which is okay. If you don’t give yourself the opportunity to learn as an interviewer, you’re missing out.

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#372
post #368

In my team, I've been working to help everyone do a task that's necessary, but because it was too difficult, people bypassed it. Over time, I made it simpler, others are joining to make it even simpler, but in the process, I'm not doing as many "feature tasks" as I could. I joke that people are mad at me every day, but grateful every week and month. I had to stop trying to prove myself to the company. I have already…

[deleted]

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree, how much training does anyone get as an interviewer? I spent 10+ years doing interviews at all sorts of orgs (including Fortune 500s, government, etc.) without a single hour of interviewer training. Now that I think about it, none of those organizations ever trained me at anything at all. Huh.

> none of those organizations ever trained me at anything at all They trained us repeatedly not to bribe foreign government officials, even though I had zero access to anybody like that. There was also some mandatory training against harassing coworkers. I.e. "protect the company from lawsuits" training, not "here are some ideas for how to do your job more effectively" training. They were megacorps, too.

> "protect the company from lawsuits

Yeah that's proven by the fact they get degree educated level engineers and force feed them videos designed for people working entry level positions. Its a crying shame because there's actually a lot of interesting discussions around nuance that are just sidelined by these videos creating basic bitch absurdities:

> During the lunch break, Jim has dipped his penis into Samantha's yoghurt

> is this:

> a) entirely acceptable, its just his culture

> b) a borderline issue

> c) something that someone should report to HR

Instead of:

Jane is developing feelings for someone that reports to her, they meet up outside of work and have a one-night stand. What should Jane do next?

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete agreement. "Excellent answer, that is what I would do as well, now what if we wanted to build it in-house?"

> "now what if we wanted to build it in-house?" "Well I would probably go home and work on my resume because that's a fool's errand." I hate going to work and reinventing wheels all day because the company I work for thinks it's so special that every business function needs a 100% tailored solution to solved problems. I much prefer working somewhere that's able to tailor business processes to conform to existing stan…

Setup Etherpad

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#377
That is very true. For whatever reasons - the bigger the company, the more unjustified complexity it cripples itself with without being aware about it.

Also survivorship bias is a very real thing (problem prevented is ignored, while problem solved is appreciated regardless of who and why caused it).

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#379
post #233
post #118

I keep reading this online but never encounter it in real life. People I work with and for like simple solutions that don't add complexity. It saves them time and money. I really wonder how is it that some people seem to encounter this toxic mentality so much that they assume it is universal. Is it a FAANG/US culture thing where everyone acts based on corrupted incentives?

It's the definition of simple that's the problem. For any definition of simplicity you might have, someone has an equal and opposite definition. Take these two alternatives: class UserService { PostgresDatabase db; } class UserService { IDatabase db; } There are some coworkers who will veto the first example for being too complex, because it brings Postgres (and its state and connections and exceptions and mappings)…

I agree with your comment, but I disagree a both the example opinions... complex is the discussion :D

I heard something that helps better framing those discussions, use "familiar" instead of "simple".

An highly abstract way to access a database table, with ORM for example, can be simple because everyone is expecting it and knows how to do all tasks (changing schema, troubleshooting, managing transactions, etc.).

Doing userService.pgSql("select ....") in the same way can be simple.

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#380
post #73

I had an interview question. What would you do if two different people were emailing a spreadsheet back and forth to track something? I said I’d move them to google sheets. There was about five minutes of awkwardness after that as I was interviewing for software developer. I was supposed to talk about what kind of tool I’d build. I found it kind of eye opening but I’m still not sure what the right lesson to learn was…

I've stopped playing the game of 'guess what the right answer is'

I would have said the exact same thing and pushed the interview to consider 'why are we creating a tool when something off the shelf solves our business needs? What kind of runway and resources do I have to meet this goal? What is good enough for our problem here? Do we want to expand our scope to enable external data integration and downstream data consumption"

You will find better employment outside the circus, possibly even selling to the circus

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