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British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

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Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#371

Post by tavavex »

gwerbin wrote: post #228
jorvi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

Yeah I don't agree with this at all. I want the light when I'm getting up in the morning. When I'm coming home from work it's the end of the day: I'm tired, I'm hustling home to do errands or chores or make dinner, I'm probably going to spend that time inside anyway because that's where the things that I need to get done are, and if it it's going to be cold and windy, it's going to be cold and windy in the evening. I…

It's weird, my opinion is the exact opposite from yours, but for the same reasons. When it's the morning, I haven't had the time to get tired yet. So I don't care yet, I don't require the sunlight at that time of the day. And it's always a better feeling when there's only a bit of darkness left before sunrise, when the alternative is feeling like the day was wasted as you step outside and it's already night out. Depending on your timing, you may also see the sunrise while commuting to work, which I find enjoyable.

In the evening I'm tired, so I want the extra sunlight to cancel that out a bit, and I want it so I have more opportunities to do things after work. No one is going to do anything for fun in the morning, so giving the light to that time period is wasting it. I want it after work, so I can go somewhere, enjoy the extra warmth, just be anywhere besides home and work.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#372

Post by eru »

duskdozer wrote: post #331
eru wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. You know, you can just set your watch to whatever you feel like? > I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. What difference does it make? If people want to get up later or especially earlier, they can,…

They "can" if they don't have jobs that demand they stick to arbitrary hours.

Sure, social coordination is always a thing.

In any case, most people can get up earlier, if they want to.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#373

Post by stephen_g »

wyre wrote: post #337
kmm wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everytime people extoll the virtues of high noon, I ask the same question: why does it matter if the sun reaches it highest point near 12 o' clock? You're awake for 4-6 hours before 12, and you remain awake for 10-12 hours after it. Noon isn't the middle of the day for nearly anyone in the western world. I understand the argument for having an early sunset, clearly having sunlight when you're awake has an effect. But…

this might be controversial and a sign of growing up in America, but i think its a lot like people preferring Celsius over Fahrenheit. I don't care if water boils and freezes at exactly 100 and 0 degrees, it's easy to know its state by looking at it. But its very easy to understand what temp differences will feel like between 90, 70, 50 degrees F etc compared to 31, 22, and 4 degrees C.

In the same way, I have absolutely zero idea of what 90, 70 or 50 degrees Fahrenheit feels like - literally no intuition, those numbers seem foreign and disconnected from my experience, having always known and used Celsius. Celsius temperatures just make sense to me. It's literally just about growing up with it.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#374

Post by hgomersall »

stult wrote: post #159
jorvi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

Except for people like me who struggle to wake up before dawn. And whether people prefer light after work doesn't change the available scientific evidence which suggests there are significant negative health effects of waking up too early relative to sunrise, but no significant health benefits from having sunlight hours after work. People's preferences in this case are generally only mildly held and typically are not…

Except for the health benefits of not being killed by tired drivers in the dark late afternoons, which is a thing.

Currently it's doubly bad because the clocks changing also cause a spike in deaths.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#375

Post by alexhans »

emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

Don't get discouraged by being in the minority in one particular forum, specially when specific angles dominate.

People put different weights to different arguments.

For the Spain argument below. I actually think it's quite uncomfortable to be +1 and +2 in daily life because people leaving office at 5pm are actually leaving at 3pm under scorching sun. The difference of having light until 23 instead of 22 is negligible in a country that is still up at night in winter.

I can't cite anything at the moment but from what I can recall, economic benefits of switching during the year have not been as tauted and the cost of changing every year has been harmful in many ways (operational being one), but I think here the discussion is where should countries land.

I hope that a country like UK doesn't decide to switch to +1 and the same for Europe, further separating themselves from the American continent countries with the focus on summer sunlight where summer already has a huge window of sun and people often tend to want to escape that heat.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#376

Post by sillyfluke »

emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

>Kids walking, biking, and being driven to school in mornings in darkness ... that's also what permanent DST gives us.

I think this is the worst thing about it frankly, the kids. And you can't just push the school time back cause it interferes with the parents getting to work.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#378

Post by alexhans »

goodmodule wrote: post #37

It would be great to see Europe adopt it as well. Changing clocks twice a year feels outdated and more disruptive than beneficial.

I don't like switching to daylight saving and back but I'd rather have that that permanently moving to +1. Then you have extreme examples which are already shifted like Spain (for historical reasons around aligning with Germany) and I don't find that alignment useful economically, in city life practice and more.

If had to make an executive choice with no further analysis at this moment I'd put them all in their respective original times and move Spain and any outlier to their proper timezone (a vertical map alignment of sorts)

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#379

Post by dheera »

emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

Times are just numbers, just shift your work hours accordingly. The only real problem is that the people seeing you leave at 4pm and grumble are the same sort of people who don't acknowledge you starting work at 7am. As long as you don't have those sorts of people around you're fine.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#380

Post by sillyfluke »

alexhans wrote: post #375
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

Don't get discouraged by being in the minority in one particular forum, specially when specific angles dominate. People put different weights to different arguments. For the Spain argument below. I actually think it's quite uncomfortable to be +1 and +2 in daily life because people leaving office at 5pm are actually leaving at 3pm under scorching sun. The difference of having light until 23 instead of 22 is negligibl…

Yes, once you look at the daylight times it's clear that UK time naturally fits Spain better.
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