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This time is different

shkspr.mobi

371–380 of 400 posts

Re: This time is different

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d rather talk about the history of steam engines than AI today, so: let’s just say it sounds like at some time in the past you saw a clunky inefficient Newcomen steam engine pumping water out of a coal mine, and you hated it, and now you think that’s all steam engines are or can be or can do: they’re loud and annoying and they’re just for pumping coal mines. Then one day someone tells you they’re powering mechanize…

Where is the huge mass of good software that AI has created?

[deleted]

Re: This time is different

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this nonsense? You said that none of this was in production and then when people pointed out that it was obviously in production, you shifted the goal post to some other measure that you just imagined in your head.

Well, if it's in production, it's not at my company, any of my vendors, or for that matter any of the software I use in my private life; the pace of all of that is exactly what it was 2 years ago. When it shows up I'll form an opinion.

Let me amend that: one of my vendors has a new diffusion-based noise-reduction plugin that's pretty good though the resource usage is still too high. I imagine that will come down as they improve it. And that's pretty cool. But it didn't come out any faster it's just that it uses diffusion in the plugin itself. But docker was a much bigger impact on the software we use at work than AI has been so far.

I was even trying to come up with a list of software I use in my personal life to see if any of that has started coming out faster, and I came up with:

KDE

Supercollider

Puredata

Mixxx

Renoise

CUDA and ROCM

none of which have had any kind of release acceleration that I know of (though obviously the hardware to use the last two has gotten mind-blowingly expensive, alas). I use maybe three apps on my phone and they aren't updating any more frequently than they used to.

I get that for whatever reason this bugs people, but I'm in a very tech job and have a very tech personal life (just not webdev in either case) and literally have not seen anything I deal with change other than needing to learn to scroll past the AI summary at the top of search results.

Re: This time is different

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this nonsense? You said that none of this was in production and then when people pointed out that it was obviously in production, you shifted the goal post to some other measure that you just imagined in your head.

Well, if it's in production, it's not at my company, any of my vendors, or for that matter any of the software I use in my private life; the pace of all of that is exactly what it was 2 years ago. When it shows up I'll form an opinion.

What do you expect that it’s gonna announce itself in a modal dialogue when you run the software?

This isn’t like AI image generation where you’re going to convince yourself that you can tell the difference based on how you think it looks. Do you really think no one in the production chain of any of the software that you use picked up copilot in the last two years?

What signal are you hoping to receive that this is happening?

Re: This time is different

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if it's in production, it's not at my company, any of my vendors, or for that matter any of the software I use in my private life; the pace of all of that is exactly what it was 2 years ago. When it shows up I'll form an opinion.

What do you expect that it’s gonna announce itself in a modal dialogue when you run the software? This isn’t like AI image generation where you’re going to convince yourself that you can tell the difference based on how you think it looks. Do you really think no one in the production chain of any of the software that you use picked up copilot in the last two years? What signal are you hoping to receive that this is h…

Well like I said in the sibling post to this one I'd expect really any of the software vendors in my professional or personal life to release either more rapidly or with a wider array of features than they were a few years ago, and that hasn't been my experience, at all.

Re: This time is different

#375
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2024/sep/rapid-ado...

So about 10%, using it less than once per day means you didn't find it useful for most tasks.

Also add in that these adoption rates are being enforced via threats of firing by bosses of workers. It's hardly something organic, there's a reason why the LLM companies are chasing lucrative corporate welfare contracts because consumers have soundly rejected this nonsense.

Re: This time is different

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So about 10%, using it less than once per day means you didn't find it useful for most tasks.

Just like the PC. Or the internet. In 1995 how many people used the internet in their daily work, of those that did how many was it a curiosity that maybe supplemented their existing business practice (sending a memo via email rather than post for example). Large companies were using large computer mainframes but the majority of employers - the SMEs - weren’t. By 2005 it massively shifted, and AI seems to be coming f…

My boss never had to threaten me to use a computer, unlike the current LLM mandates across corporate America.

Re: This time is different

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think an artificial intelligence would have less impact on the world than the steam engine? The AI commentators are not saying that ELIZA will change the world, they’re saying that one of the big companies is moments away from an AGI. Sam Altman called a recent ChatGPT model a “PhD level expert”; wouldn’t infinite PhDs for $20/month or $200/month be transformative? That is, your objection isn’t the usual “LLMs ar…

There's potential there (with the pocket-PhDs), the question is whether it'll actually make a measurable difference in the long run. I mean I'm sure it will make a difference, the question is whether it's what they say it will be, and whether it'll be financially viable. At the current burn rate of the AI companies, it isn't - before long the first ones will have to give up. They won't die, they'll be subsumed into t…

> Same with PhDs - is there a shortage of them? Does adding potentially infinite PhDs (whatever they are) to a project make it better, or does it just make... more?

Yes, there is still a large demand for people with analytical thinking, a deep knowledge base, and good problem-solving skills. This demand shows up broadly across STEM fields, and it's a major reason that these fields pay relatively high.

Even just thinking of R&D, there is an immense amount of work left to be done in basic science. Research is throttled partly by a lack of cheap graduate lab labor. (If that physical + mental labor became much cheaper, the costs of research would shift - what does it take to get reagants? What does it take to build more lab space, and provide water and light? Etc.)

The present issue is that current AI does not really offer the same capabilities as a good grad student or PhD. Not just physically, as in, we don't have good robotics yet, but mentally. LLMs do not exhibit good judgment or problem-solving skills, like a good PhD does. And they don't exhibit continual learning.

No clue on when these will change, but yes, a cheap AI with solid problem-solving skills and good judgment would absolutely upend our economy.

Re: This time is different

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are right, but here’s a fun counter-example. I recently bought a new robot* to do some of my housework and yet, at around 200lbs, it required two people to deliver it (strength) get it set up (dexterity) and explain to me how to use it (intelligence). * https://www.mieleusa.com/product/11614070/w1-front-loading-w...

You don't need a lot of imagination to predict those jobs can be done by other robots in the not so far future.

Yeah and I think that extends to even trades we see as protected because they often work in novel and unknown setting, like whatever a drunk tradesman rigged up in the decades previous.

Eventually it will be more economical to just destroy all those old world structures entirely, clear the site out, and replace it with the new modular world able to be repaired with robots that no longer have to look like humans and fit into human centric ux paradigms. They can be entirely purpose built to task unlike a human, who will still be average height and mass with all the usual pieces parts no matter how they are trained.

Re: This time is different

#380
post #62

>Blockchain... NFTs >The problem is, the same dudes who were pumped for all of that bollocks now won't stop wanging on about Artificial Intelligence. I was firmly in the camp that blockchain was not a viable solution to any problem, and that NFTs sound stupid. I think AI is much different than that list. So, there goes your argument?

Except that at the time, every company was announcing that they are "doing Blockchain" the same way that they are now "doing AI"

NFTs was always stupid; blockchain (not crypto) has plenty of real world applicability

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