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The happiest I've ever been

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Re: The happiest I've ever been

#371

Post by lII1lIlI11ll »

foobarian wrote: post #351
abc123abc123 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the polarization of the child/no-child discussion revolting. One side poo-poo:ing on the other, have a child? Breeder! The other poo-poo:ing back... no child, you f*cking egoist, I'm happy your gene line dies out. Personally I am of the opinion that everyone is entitled to their own life, and that the default assumption should be that they make conscious decisions in line with their own preferences. Have a chi…

It strikes me that both these views are selfish, in that they focus on direct impact on one's life. But what about the broad impact on society for the descendants? What if by abdicating procreation we create conditions where only communities that force childbearing survive? Ought we not figure out a system where we can have both freedom and equality, as well as a sustainable population?

> Ought we not figure out a system where we can have both freedom and equality, as well as a sustainable population?

That would be great, but I never heard any realistic proposals how to make educated women with good opportunities want to birth and rear 3+ children.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#372

Post by bdangubic »

Aeolun wrote: post #136
freetime2 wrote: post #38

I honestly don’t understand how anyone has the time and energy to be a coach while working a full-time job. My kids practice three times a week, and usually have games on both Saturday and Sunday - sometimes several hours away. Just getting them to practices and games often feels exhausting to me - I can’t imagine all the planning and scheduling that goes on behind the scenes, or having to show up and actually run th…

Pretty certain the coaching is their job for the soccer coaches at our elementary school. 6 years of kids each with 3 practices a week + matches.

except it is not, no one’s actual profession (and only job) is youth soccer coach (few exception are retired people etc). it would be impossible to make a living if this was your only job

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#373

Post by lII1lIlI11ll »

arealaccount wrote: post #91
whaleidk wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who want to be childless usually champion the importance of building strong community through friends and neighbors, just because they don’t want kids doesn’t mean they don’t want to contribute to others’ happiness lol. People wanting FIRE is a lot more to do with the current economy and wealth of useless or harmful jobs than kids

> dont want to deal with kids Someone has to bring up the next generation, the no kids crowd want all the luxury of having the next generation without putting in the effort or spending the money.

> Someone has to bring up the next generation, the no kids crowd want all the luxury of having the next generation without putting in the effort or spending the money.

Who do you think pays for schools-kindergartens for your kids while you getting tax credits for them and likely for your dependent wife who doesn't work while rearing them? And on top of that for your kid's healthcare in many European countries...

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#375

Post by __turbobrew__ »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #345
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you want to be born a girl in the 1940s? My grandma was born in the 40s and said it was better back then. > Decades before the Civil Rights Act and Jim Crow laws still existed? I don’t live in the USA so that is irrelevant. Also, keep in mind I still have over half my life to live and the future seems very uncertain. Maybe I am a pessimist, but I would take 1940-2020 which I now know in hindsight was a pretty…

> My grandma was born in the 40s and said it was better back then. My grandma was also, and she will tell you women should not have as many rights as men. And that periods make women unclean. And kids should have to follow their parents’ religion. And corporal punishment for kids is okay. And daughter in laws should defer to parents’ in laws. > Maybe I am wrong and we will magically cure cancer Quality of life after…

> Things might very well be trending down, but they can still be better than the past in some ways, and worse in some ways.

Maybe, I would take a guaranteed pretty good 80 years over the next 40-50 years where things are trending downwards. And for all we know, the past 80 years were a fluke caused by WW2 and the carbon impulse happening at the same time.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#376

Post by iguhhyfchh »

mr_toad wrote: post #307
bengale wrote: post #35

In the nicest possible way, this is basically the oldest lesson there is. You weren’t happy because you optimized your feelings or had the right opinions. You were happy because you stopped focusing on yourself and became responsible for other people. Six kids needed you, in the real world, every week. That kind of outward focus kills emptiness fast. Chasing happiness, moral righteousness, or political engagement jus…

> That kind of outward focus kills emptiness fast. I used to race on a friend’s sailboat. One of the things that people noticed on a sailboat is that you need to and have to be focused on immediate problems, rather than any problems on land. If you fail to pay attention to problems at sea, you may no longer have any problems on land, or anywhere. This can allow you, at least temporarily, to forget any problems you mi…

[dead]

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#377

Post by lr4444lr »

watermelon59 wrote: post #364
lr4444lr wrote: post #147

As someone who taught kids in person and fell into a deep depression with how Kafkaesque that job was and then found so much more gratification as a SWE, all I can say is, the author's experience is not universal. (And I am a parent, so it's not about disliking kids.) I will say though that remote work is definitely dystopia. I need an office and the presence of people physically.

> As someone who taught kids in person and fell into a deep depression with how Kafkaesque that job was Would you mind elaborating on why that was the case? I’m super curious because I’ve considered switching careers to become a teacher.

To quote H.L. Mencken (paraphrasing), a teacher's job is miserable because they must ceaselessly try to get masses or people to think who have no real capacity to.

You might be lucky to reach a small minority of your students, assuming environmental forces of poverty, dysfunctional family, and peer influence don't muzzle their gifts. But the day in day out bulk of your work isn't those "Mr. Holland's Opus" moments: it's handling a bunch of kids who don't want to be there in a bureaucratic set of rules imposed on you from above. And private schools are not immune to these problems either.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#378

Post by freetime2 »

watermelon59 wrote: post #362
freetime2 wrote: post #38

I honestly don’t understand how anyone has the time and energy to be a coach while working a full-time job. My kids practice three times a week, and usually have games on both Saturday and Sunday - sometimes several hours away. Just getting them to practices and games often feels exhausting to me - I can’t imagine all the planning and scheduling that goes on behind the scenes, or having to show up and actually run th…

As a father of a still very young boy who might be getting into sports later in school (who knows), reading that terrifies me. I’ve heard the same, in person, from friends who have kids on their school’s soccer team and whatnot. Why don’t school provide transportation to games on the weekends? Seems like a massive waste of collective resources to have every family drive for hours to get to wherever games are played.…

I live in Japan, so it's not just an American phenomenon.

I think most schools provide transportation to away games. But in my city official school sports clubs don't start until high school - before that it's all private club teams.

In my kids' club, the team will provide transportation to far away games in other prefectures, or sometimes for games on school holidays when parents may be working. But it's very common for parents to have to drive their kids an hour or more to other cities within our prefecture. Carpooling is very common.

But most parents want to watch their kids' games as much as possible. Even when the team provides transportation to a game, there are a handful of parents who will make the drive separately to support the team. My son asked me to drive 3 hours to watch an upcoming big game and support the team, and of course I'm not going to say no. To be able to see how far he has progressed, and to know that he wants me there to support him, is special. But also still exhausting at times.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#379

Post by nine_k »

hirvi74 wrote: post #357
nine_k wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose that people who actively do not want to have kids should not have kids. Their hypothetical kids won't be happy and well-developed, but instead always feel that they are an undesired burden. Instead, people who like having kids should have more kids. This would proliferate a healthy culture that sees kids as a source of happiness, not a burden of misery taken out of necessity.

> I suppose that people who actively do not want to have kids should not have kids. I would describe myself as being the converse of that statement. I do not believe my desires should truly have much of a bearing on my situation.

There's an easy and natural way: don't use contraception. This is how it worked for millennia.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#380

Post by profunctor »

lII1lIlI11ll wrote: post #371
foobarian wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It strikes me that both these views are selfish, in that they focus on direct impact on one's life. But what about the broad impact on society for the descendants? What if by abdicating procreation we create conditions where only communities that force childbearing survive? Ought we not figure out a system where we can have both freedom and equality, as well as a sustainable population?

> Ought we not figure out a system where we can have both freedom and equality, as well as a sustainable population? That would be great, but I never heard any realistic proposals how to make educated women with good opportunities want to birth and rear 3+ children.

Make it so that they don’t birth and rear but instead birth and then rear with a partner who will contribute equally. Also financial subsidies so that a child becomes at least neutral in terms of cost. Social help to make raising a child less exhausting. Improve the climate to that we can be positive about the child’s future. All difficult but not impossible.
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