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Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

discuss.ai.google.dev

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Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#371

Post by DavidPiper »

stevage wrote: post #298
paxys wrote: post #68

I don't know why people here can't accept the simple fact that AI companies are offering cheap "unlimited" plans as a loss leader to tie you to their ecosystem, and then make up for it via add-ons, upsells, ads etc. If you use those API tokens to access external services it defeats the purpose. The hack may have worked so far, mainly because no one was checking, but they are all going to tighten the access eventually…

No one is shocked that they don't allow this. Everyone is shocked that they silently, permanently banned the user with no recourse and it took significant effort even to find out that much.

Sorry to be that guy, but given how often Google has done this for lesser infringements (some reported here on HN), is anyone really "shocked" by the permabans?

The apparent shock around this sort of thing always feels like cope for the fact that we (myself included) understand the power imbalance between Google and its customers but don't want to admit it.

There's plenty of evidence at this point, and I feel like we should be using that emotional energy to actually do something about it (like switching providers for critical personal services, for example).

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#372

Post by jimbob45 »

torginus wrote: post #107
bethekind wrote: post #15

This is draconian. > Our investigation specifically confirmed that the use of your credentials within the third-party tool “open claw” for testing purposes constitutes a violation of the Google Terms of Service [1]. This is due to the use of Antigravity servers to power a non-Antigravity product. I must be transparent and inform you that, in accordance with Google’s policy, this situation falls under a zero tolerance…

Isn't the reason companies are doing this because they're offering tokens at a discount, provided they're spent through their tooling? Considering the tremendous amount of tokens OpenClaw can burn for something that has nothing to do with sofware development, I think it's reasonable for Google to not allow using tokens reserved for Antigravity. I don't think there's such a restriction if you pay for the API out of po…

Then it should be “This is your first and final warning. The next time we catch you, it’s a ban.”. People are building their lives around this stuff and kneejerk bans erode good faith in your platform.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#373

Post by overfeed »

anon84873628 wrote: post #359
integralpilot wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my understanding, OpenClaw pretends to be Antigravity by using the Antigravity OAuth client ID (and doesn't have its own), and then the takes the token Google returns to instead use with OpenClaw. When I first tried OpenClaw and chose Google Sign-In, I noticed the window appeared saying "Sign into Google Antigravity" with a Google official mark, and a warning it shouldn't be used to sign into anything besides offi…

Ah, ok. I guess there is no way for Google to prevent this since desktop apps are public clients that use PKCE. I imagine Open Claw must also have registered the Antigravity custom URL scheme in order to receive the redirect. Remaining question is how Google determines that traffic is not actually coming from Antigravity.

> Remaining question is how Google determines that traffic is not actually coming from Antigravity.

Spiralling here: high volumes, and tool calls that are not typical for an agentic IDE.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#374

Post by akssassin907 »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #276
akssassin907 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine, restrict the OpenClaw usage. Fine, cancel the AI Pro subscription. But nuking Gmail, Google Photos, Drive — years of irreplaceable personal data — as punishment for how you routed tokens? That's not enforcement, that's collective punishment. No bank closes your checking account because you used your debit card at a competitor's ATM. The offense and the penalty are in completely different weight classes. That's…

Source that that is what is happening? Because everything I've seen looks like that the use of that one service is blocked, not the whole account.

Fair point, I was going off the "quoted suspension email" in the OP. If it's only the AI service and not the full account, that is definitely not as bad. Either way the zero-warning policy though is a big issue IMP.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#375

Post by MattRix »

fasbiner wrote: post #350
Thorrez wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But Google are banning entire accounts, with years, even decades, of personal history, photos, even phone accounts and app development projects. Source? It seems to me only the anti-gravity access was blocked. The link says > Our product engineering team has confirmed that your account was suspended from using our Antigravity service. > there’s no way we can restore our accounts to use Antigravity anymore yeah? Disc…

[flagged]

This is a really weird response man. No need to get so judgy and personal.

Besides, as far as I can tell what they said is true. The users are losing access to Antigravity, not to their entire Google accounts. So you’re getting mad at this guy just for stating facts.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#376

Post by BoorishBears »

azuanrb wrote: post #361
BoorishBears wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. You can't offer OAuth + the Claude Agent SDK in your own product, but you can use Claude Agent SDK locally by signing in through Claude Code. It's no different than using Claude Code directly.

I’m aware of the tweet that says otherwise, but until they update their legal documentation, it’s still not allowed. > OAuth authentication (used with Free, Pro, and Max plans) is intended exclusively for Claude Code and Claude.ai. Using OAuth tokens obtained through Claude Free, Pro, or Max accounts in any other product, tool, or service — including the Agent SDK — is not permitted and constitutes a violation of the…

It's not about a tweet, just read your own quote.

You cannot authenticate with anything but Claude Code and Claude.ai.

But you do not need to authenticate with Claude Agent SDK (even though you can using env variables).

When you authenticate with Claude Code (allowed), Claude Agent SDK works without any further authentication.

It's really annoying that people keep trying to make this complicated because the inevitable end result is that they remove authless usage of the Agent SDK and save themselves the headache.

I really hate Clawdb-Moltb-OpenC-NanoCode or whatever half-baked project the grifters are on this week for ruining a good thing for the rest of us.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#377

Post by allthetime »

Aperocky wrote: post #153
SilverSlash wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their "API" isn't what's being accessed here. As far as I understand it's using their subscription account oauth token in some third party app that's the issue here.

If they allowed oauth token to work like that then that is their (Google's) problem.

Well, it looks like they're not allowing it.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#378

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

jacquesm wrote: post #133
NewsaHackO wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the issue is the same as Anthropic. They do charge for it though their API. The users, however, want to use the discounted "unlimited" flat rate through the first-party app instead, then get mad when they are told they have to use the same API every other third-party app does.

No, the problem is that the discounted rate exists in the first place. Essentially these are unfair business practices, product cross subsidization to ensure market dominance. See also: Microsoft and a whole bunch of other companies. And once they've got their monopoly position there is inevitably the rug-pull. I wonder if some CPO somewhere actually had the guts to put a 'rug pull' item on the product roadmap.

So you are saying a company should never reinvest profits in the company to support another money losing business until it’s profitable?

Should Netflix for instance not invested money from renting DVDs to invest in a streaming service?

Apple not use the profits it was making from selling Apple //e’s to create the Mac?

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#379

Post by Aurornis »

fruitworks wrote: post #270
fennecbutt wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lmao no. You cannot use your common sim card for that. It's for an individual and they will cut your service and justifiably so, if they figure out that's what you're using it for. If you buy a sim card built for that purpose sure, but then you'll be paying...biz prices! This isn't really that hard to figure out people. So much outrage in comments on this. Self entitlement to the max from people who really haven't li…

I can do it pretty easily. The restriction in both cases is so easily overcome it is ridiculous to build your buisness model around it and disrespectful to the customer's intellect.

> it is ridiculous to build your buisness model around it and disrespectful to the customer's intellect

Many things in business are easy to defeat if you’re willing to break the rules. Enforcement is handled through audits, flagging suspicious activity, and investigations.

It’s ridiculous to think that because you can temporarily circumvent a restriction that the rules don’t apply.

I don’t agree with the excessive enforcement used, but there is a lot of tortured logic in this thread trying to argue that the contract terms shouldn’t apply to service usage because the customer doesn’t like the terms.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#380

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

cyberax wrote: post #185
NewsaHackO wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Essentially these are unfair business practices, product cross subsidization to ensure market dominance. Offering a different discounted rate for a service, though their first-party platform is not an unfair business practice whatsoever, though. The bar isn't what you disagree with, or what you think their motives are without any substantial proof. They could even make a honest argument that they can aggressively k…

Offering goods or services below the cost of their production is often illegal, though. It's called "dumping". Although in this case it's probably impossible to define, given the complexity of calculating the true cost of tokens.

So every company that is not immediately selling enough to cover its fixed costs and its variable cost should be illegal? Every company and every new initiative must be profitable from day one in your world?
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