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Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

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Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That system is nothing compared to the geolocation databases curated by Apple and Google, with GPS sensors combined with Wi-Fi wardriving, IMEI tracking, cell tower handoffs, and the rest of the insane amount of telemetry they collect collect in real time. And that’s before even considering BLE and the Find My network. Imagine the “God mode” dashboards they could have in Cupertino (or more likely, in Mountain View).

but one can choose not to use a device which is tracked, I cannot opt out of other people's cameras.

These devices are very few in reality. One reason why I keep investing in almost every company that makes a Linux based smartphone. Still need the 2FA and digital magazine for the loo.

Even large retails install bluetooth tracking in their buildings now. Was interviewing for one of them and they ask what you would use that style of tracking for to support the consumer. Giving the consumer a reason to use it helps validate and maximize the meta data.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the reduction in crime is not solely due to Flock, but is has definitely helped. what's the theory? murderers see flock cams and decide not to murder? most of the general public doesn't even know what these cameras are (or that they even exist).

Lets take the current example of the famous kidnapping of the TV anchor's mother in AZ for example. If Arizona was blanketed in CCTVs, do you think this kidnapping would have happened? And if it still did happen, I'm 100% sure the suspects would have been caught by now (11th+ day since the disappearance now).

States with the death penalty still have murders.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand crime and deterrence.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#373
post #247

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>The bugs have no technology. The bugs are shown firing projectiles to orbit. This is a setting with FTL travel; it's clearly not hard sci-fi. By the standard narrative conventions of soft sci-fi action movies, the bugs are capable of firing asteroids at Earth. >The true cause of the destruction is irrelevant It's critically important to the ethical justification for military response. According to the information ac…

> the standard narrative conventions of soft sci-fi action movies What if the real fascist propaganda was implicit in the standard narrative conventions we made along the way?

>What if the real fascist propaganda was implicit in the standard narrative conventions we made along the way?

Ding ding ding. Endemic to fascism, among other things, are heavy State involvement in the curation of, shall we say, "the corpus culturále". Even in the United States, particularly in the earlier half of the 20th Century, there were certain lines you could not cross and still end up on broadcast television. Renditions of the Government, Police/Authorities, or the Courts in an unflattering light was an express lane to non-syndication. Go ahead, look for syndicated media that that highlighted the People's struggle against a corrupt Government where another part of the Government isn't also complicit in "cracking down on the bad apples" (thereby distancing itself from being party to the dysfunction, and reinforcing it's own Supreme legitimacy). No points if it's not in the United States. We're great at syndicating everyone else's problems. Not so much our own. Point is, those network decency standards were, in essence, formulations of what the governing authority considers invalid art. Art, on the other hand, is all encompassing. Ironically, mrob, you're pulling from the fascist art critic's handbook to dismiss the possibility of the work of satire being a fascistly produced piece of media consumption into and unto itself, by doing exactly what a fascist state does. Referencing guidelines and norms that lay out the boundaries of acceptable artistic practice.

In reality, art is as much the characteristics and execution of the workpiece itself, the cinema Starship Troopers, as it is the collective viewer's response to it. In essence, both you and the other poster have equal claims to artistic merit. Though I tend to side with the "this is fascist af" side of the argument given that despite the limitations of the medium, it is very clearly illustrated that what the military junta says goes, period. States are not containers or facilitators of the monopoly on violence. They are incubators for collective action. By trimming down the collective, and setting price of admission to "do our bidding or no representation"; you undeniably tread what in mid-20th century historical experience outlines as "the road to fascism". Disenfranchise the undesirable. Rule according to sensibilities of the desirables. Funnily enough, in it's own way, the U.S. of today is fascistic in that regard, given we absolutely adore the disenfranchisement of the felon, which seems more peppered through legal system than your Grandma's favorite spice.

Ain't Art grand?

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, in the U.S., privacy laws vary by state, so the blanket statement about 'the US' is incorrect. Second, laws are made by people. The fact that many of us do not want to be recorded 24/7 is why it is worth discussing.

The 1st amendment protects your right to film in public, so my statement is correct. The limitations only come from edge cases, like stalking, interfering with active law enforcement, or recording conversations in all-party consent states; none of which would apply to a security camera recording a public view.

A camera pointing at the sidewalk is fairly innocuous.

A camera pointing at the sidewalk that live streams everything it sees to several megacorps and law enforcement agencies is troubling. A million cameras doing this is a surveillance state. That's bad!

Legal? Yes. Dangerous to the populous? Also yes. Something can be legal and also be very very bad. You get that, right? Your argument comes across as "well, I'm within my rights to shout the N-word in a public place!!" Sure, and you're also an asshole. Not for having a camera, but for sending the footage to a bunch of creeps and thinking that's a fine thing to do.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1st amendment protects your right to film in public, so my statement is correct. The limitations only come from edge cases, like stalking, interfering with active law enforcement, or recording conversations in all-party consent states; none of which would apply to a security camera recording a public view.

A camera pointing at the sidewalk is fairly innocuous. A camera pointing at the sidewalk that live streams everything it sees to several megacorps and law enforcement agencies is troubling. A million cameras doing this is a surveillance state. That's bad! Legal? Yes. Dangerous to the populous? Also yes. Something can be legal and also be very very bad. You get that, right? Your argument comes across as "well, I'm wit…

Genuinely asking how is that realistically dangerous to the populace?

Set aside a slippery slope argument, because we’re just talking about security cameras in public areas: do you really think you have a right to privacy on a sidewalk?

If someone recognizes a criminal on a sidewalk from a wanted poster, or a missing child from a milk carton, is that surveillance state? Are they an asshole for calling the tip line, instead of keeping quiet?

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#377
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starship Troopers (the movie) is a terrible example of satire because it fails to show anything substantially bad. When you present a society that's more ethical than real life, nobody's going to care if some people wear uniforms that look a bit like Nazi uniforms. There is a genuine existential risk, and it's addressed in the best way possible. Military slavery ("conscription") is more evil than disenfranchisement,…

>There is a genuine existential risk The Mormon missionaries settled on a bug planet. Human's attempting to colonize worlds already inhabited and getting killed is not an existential risk or threat. Choosing to go and exterminate the local population in response is not defense. Assuming the Buenos Aires attack is from the bugs, it only happened after humans invaded multiple bug worlds. Since the bugs never seem to at…

>Choosing to go and exterminate the local population in response is not defense.

The Mormons were not the United Citizen Federation, they were an independent group. The bugs indiscriminately attacked all humans in response.

>exterminating the native population to make room

The problem with this comparison is the bugs aren't humans. Extending human-like moral weight to even non-human mammals is a rare idea (most people aren't vegans). Extending it to non-mammals is even more rare (most vegans don't care about the insects killed in farming). Extending it to literally alien bugs, that don't even share the evolutionary history of Earth bugs with us, is an incredibly niche idea. And this situation is symmetrical, so the alien bugs almost certainly have the same attitude toward humans. There's no reason to think that peaceful coexistence is possible.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#378
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The bugs have no technology. The bugs are shown firing projectiles to orbit. This is a setting with FTL travel; it's clearly not hard sci-fi. By the standard narrative conventions of soft sci-fi action movies, the bugs are capable of firing asteroids at Earth. >The true cause of the destruction is irrelevant It's critically important to the ethical justification for military response. According to the information ac…

It's not clear to me that the bugs have FTL indeed we don't see them use such in movie or book. Moreover sending a single small rock makes zero sense FTL and knowledge of humanities only major world would have allowed them to wipe out the threat in a stroke. You could A) warp in a rock of sufficient velocity that a small one destroys life on the planet or B) warp in and move a bigger rock in system. It only makes sen…

You're ignoring genre conventions. Every soft scifi movie is nonsense if you look at it from the perspective of real-life physics. Sending a single rock via unspecified FTL to attack Earth makes as much sense as the human-piloted fighter spacecraft in Star Wars. The aliens are capable of bombarding Earth across interstellar space because it makes for a good visual spectacle. Watch (or more likely read) hard scifi instead if you need everything to make logical sense.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#379
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For fellow HN'ers reading this epically long back and forth: sig appears to be taking the more mainstream stance that Starship Troopers is satire. This is reinforced my popular interpretations from, say, Wikipedia, but refuted by others, like say, IMDB. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_(film) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120201/ mrob is part of the coalition (that included many critics when the film w…

This seems.. wrong? From the director's mouth, confirming it's satire [0] > Robert Heinlein’s original 1959 science-fiction novel was militaristic, if not fascistic. So I decided to make a movie about fascists who aren’t aware of their fascism. Robocop was just urban politics – this was about American politics. As a European it seemed to me that certain aspects of US society could become fascistic: the refusal to lim…

I'm of the opinion that if you want to make a satire, intending to make a satire isn't enough, you have to actually make a satire. Others might disagree. The famous Roland Barthes essay "The Death of the Author" is relevant here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the standard narrative conventions of soft sci-fi action movies What if the real fascist propaganda was implicit in the standard narrative conventions we made along the way?

>What if the real fascist propaganda was implicit in the standard narrative conventions we made along the way? Ding ding ding. Endemic to fascism, among other things, are heavy State involvement in the curation of, shall we say, "the corpus culturále". Even in the United States, particularly in the earlier half of the 20th Century, there were certain lines you could not cross and still end up on broadcast television.…

I support the freedom to produce unconventional art. I'm just pointing out the empirical fact that if you produce a work of art that follows the conventions of a genre, people are going to judge it according to those genre conventions. That's how communication works, it's entirely normal and expected. If you want to subvert a genre, you have to actually subvert a genre. Just intending to do so is not enough.
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