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Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#371

Post by reliabilityguy »

abustamam wrote: post #369
reliabilityguy wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But deporting people because they got a traffic citation So what is the “thing” that justifies deporting in your view?

Crime? I concede that if someone is illegal and they get stopped by law enforcement then I understand if they need to be deported. They are, after all, here illegally. The veteran from my previous comment should not have been deported after having served our nation honorably, but that is a one-off. My point is that we have people at the top levels of government and corporation who have associated with a known sex tra…

> Crime? I concede that if someone is illegal and they get stopped by law enforcement then I understand if they need to be deported. They are, after all, here illegally.

I am not sure I understand your position. If someone in the country illegally, then unless they commit a crime, or stopped by law enforcement, they should not be deported?

> The veteran from my previous comment should not have been deported after having served our nation honorably, but that is a one-off.

I’ve read the story in your link, and something is off. The person in question came to the country legally (not clear what it means in terms of his immigration status — maybe he came on a tourist visa, and then overstayed? Student visa -> overstay/fall out of status?) in 1975. At some point served in the army, which again was possible during some periods of time between 1975 and 2007 (perhaps even later), honorably discharged. Then, after some questionable things (not necessarily crimes, circa 2007) something went sideways, and lead to order of removal in 2014. The guy is old, and from a humanitarian perspective, IMO, he should not get deported. I still do not understand why he did not naturalize, but it is irrelevant at the moment.

> My point is that we have people at the top levels of government and corporation who have associated with a known sex trafficker. We have crimes literally right in front of our faces. Why are we spending resources on building a secret police of masked thugs who are basically doing whatever they want however they want, to deport people hanging outside of Home Depot? > Again, what problem are we trying to solve here? Are we just looking for people to deport, or are we trying to reduce crime? If we are looking for people to deport, then they should just say that instead of pretending like they are going after violent criminals and gangbangers, but then deporting gardeners.

Why there should be a focus on only one? I mean, if you are doing an investigation into drug trafficking, make an arrest, and then discover that one of the arrestees is also committed another crime. Would you charge this person with the newly discovered crime, or not?

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#372

Post by reddozen »

throwpoaster wrote: post #308
Dylan16807 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No careful rulecrafting can survive the worst people being in charge.

That’s the topic of the Federalist Papers. It’s been working for 2.5 centuries.

Cool. Yeah but the topic is that it's currently not working when you have a president that doesn't want to respect rule of law.

Just like Roberts schizo-rambling about the federalist papers and inventing new terms like "Core constitutional powers" while not addressing any of the dissents. Roberts pens in that the president gets broad immunity for "core" (defined nowhere) powers and ignores the public's interest in not having a criminal president.

Originalists like senile Roberts must have forgot the framers were literally escaping a monarchy with no judicial accountability. Maybe him and Alito can figure out the mental gymnastics needed to ask his wife to take down the stop-the-steal flag outside his house.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#373

Post by abustamam »

reliabilityguy wrote: post #371
abustamam wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime? I concede that if someone is illegal and they get stopped by law enforcement then I understand if they need to be deported. They are, after all, here illegally. The veteran from my previous comment should not have been deported after having served our nation honorably, but that is a one-off. My point is that we have people at the top levels of government and corporation who have associated with a known sex tra…

> Crime? I concede that if someone is illegal and they get stopped by law enforcement then I understand if they need to be deported. They are, after all, here illegally. I am not sure I understand your position. If someone in the country illegally, then unless they commit a crime, or stopped by law enforcement, they should not be deported? > The veteran from my previous comment should not have been deported after hav…

> If someone in the country illegally, then unless they commit a crime, or stopped by law enforcement, they should not be deported?

Sure, I can see why they should be deported. I don't think it's necessarily a good reason to be deported, but I concede that if you're illegal and get caught doing something you should not have done, then there's grounds for deportation. Like Al Capone got caught because he didn't do his taxes.

> from a humanitarian perspective, IMO, he should not get deported

That's interesting. Where do you draw the line?

> I mean, if you are doing an investigation into drug trafficking, make an arrest, and then discover that one of the arrestees is also committed another crime. Would you charge this person with the newly discovered crime, or not?

Sure, and there's tons of precedent for this (see Al Capone). But this isn't what's happening. ICE is not investigating crimes. There's purposely looking for people to deport, and employing filthy tactics to do this.

Again, if the tactics they're using causes US citizens to carry their own documentation, there's something seriously wrong.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#374

Post by leptons »

tracker1 wrote: post #349
leptons wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Splitting up the country to avoid a bloody civil war? Are you serious? The first thing that happens if California secedes is California's ports will be blockaded by US warships. And it's going downhill quickly from there. This administration would love nothing more than justification to lock up every citizen left-of-right-wing, or just exterminate them outright. They have been demonizing liberals for years as child m…

It goes both ways with plenty of people on the left talking about "re-education" camps for conservatives around the 2020-2021 timeframe.

What prominent left-wing politician has ever talked about "re-education" camps? None, that's who.

I'm not talking about vile rhetoric coming from reddit commenters, I'm talking about people in the current administration - when Steven Miller said "We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be" - exactly what do you think he meant?

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#375

Post by deaux »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #357
deaux wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem I was listening to a historian discuss the other day is that we're stuck in a cycle of: > 1. Republican breaks norms/laws > 2. Democrat cleans up after, but by not breaking norms, doesn't go far enough to actually undo all the damage > 3. We end up with a more broken governmental configuration, and head back to (1) > They said this pattern goes back to Nixon. This is set to continue, else they wouldn't…

Suggesting that republicans break, democrats overlook is biased and inaccurate. Obama attempted and got away with plenty of "creative" interpretations of the law. There's a clear partisan tendency to overlook oversteps that are in the favor of one's "team". Party politics is a disease.

Scale matters enormously, and scale is the difference.

> Party politics is a disease.

On that we agree.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#376

Post by philipallstar »

deepsun wrote: post #366
broken-kebab wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound like deportations happen because of some mistaken legal wording. That's distortion of reality. A significant amount of US citizens voted for them to happen. I'm sure they heard about GDP many times and still found other reasons more important. It wouldn't be a wild guess to assume that they won't buy Spain as a good example.

Xenophobia, of course. I just point out that to me "overstaying visa" is such a completely artificial concept, with arbitrary timelines, and is not explainable by any rational considerations of the state. Otherwise they'd neglect it. Or, as I saw myself in another country, a border guy is like "Wow, you overstayed your visa by N years! Don't worry, let me correct that. I recommend getting a permanent residency, would…

> Xenophobia, of course.

Not of course. If you know you're not willing to understand why people think the way they do then what's the point in drawing conclusions from your biases?

> I just point out that to me "overstaying visa" is such a completely artificial concept

So is the concept of a "country" or a "state". Everything is an artificial concept. The first duty of the state is to have border integrity, so the country means something, and that includes deciding who can come in and for how long. This is very, very basic stuff that's normal in every country in the world.

The US lets the most people in legally in the entire world, and by quite some measure[0]. If you think it's some xenophobic nightmare of a place then that seems an extremely narrow understanding of the world and the US's place in it.

[0] https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/top-statistics-globa...

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#377

Post by acdha »

loeg wrote: post #347
nobody9999 wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We don't know this is mistreatment. It's not wrong for the government to subpoena data to investigate a crime. To which specific "crime" are you referring? From TFA[0]: Amandla Thomas-Johnson had attended a protest targeting companies that supplied weapons to Israel at a Cornell University job fair in 2024 for all of five minutes, but the action got him banned from campus. I didn't realize that attending a protest w…

I'm not familiar with the full details of the investigation.

Does that mean you’re retracting your earlier claim? The people who are familiar with the details are saying it’s mistreatment, do you have any evidence contradicting them or is it simply a reflex to contradict criticism of your preferred team?

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#378

Post by tracker1 »

leptons wrote: post #374
tracker1 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes both ways with plenty of people on the left talking about "re-education" camps for conservatives around the 2020-2021 timeframe.

What prominent left-wing politician has ever talked about "re-education" camps? None, that's who. I'm not talking about vile rhetoric coming from reddit commenters, I'm talking about people in the current administration - when Steven Miller said "We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be" - exactly what do you think he meant?

I guess Hillary Clinton doesn't count, eh... not prominent at all.

https://www.econlib.org/hillary-clintons-disturbing-comments...

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#379

Post by tracker1 »

SanjayMehta wrote: post #370
tracker1 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it funny how many people think that Capitalism and Fascism are compatible or the same... completely disregarding the fact that Fascism is a form of Socialism borne out of the limitations of Communism.

From just the economic point of view, fascism is the state controlling and collaborating with large corporations.

There's a little more to it than that... but what most people ascribe as "fascism" conflates with authoritarianism, which includes the political and economic structures the people talking or using the "F" word generally do support.

There's no communism that doesn't lead to authoritarianism, for example. Which leaves the distinction about economics.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#380

Post by loeg »

acdha wrote: post #377
loeg wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with the full details of the investigation.

Does that mean you’re retracting your earlier claim? The people who are familiar with the details are saying it’s mistreatment, do you have any evidence contradicting them or is it simply a reflex to contradict criticism of your preferred team?

I find it hard to believe that ICE is claiming their own subpoena is mistreatment. Do you have evidence of that?
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