Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

biometricupdate.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 412 posts

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#371

Post by somenameforme »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #368
somenameforme wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still a crime even in Brazil and Argentina. Whether or not it's enforced and/or the degree of exceptions allowed, are another issue. For instance obviously illegal immigration was treated radically different during the previous administration, but the laws remain overwhelmingly the same. For instance the most controversial issue in contemporary times is deportation without trial. That's called expedited removal…

Obama and to a lesser extent Biden weren't soft on illegal immigration, but they did two things that differ from the current administration: * They followed the law. Crackdowns like the one Trump is taking are only possible if you treat law as a fluid concept and ignore judges consistently. A democrat is never going to get around that, and yes, laws can be changed, but notice how Trump isn't even bothering to do that…

Judges aren't powerless. If an administration genuinely ignores a judge's lawful ruling, they can charged with contempt, with penalties up to imprisonment. But there's a lot of judicial activism leading to 'creative' rulings. Like the Supreme Court, Federal judges are appointed with life terms. And they can be even more impactful on a day-to-day basis, especially when they intentionally step outside the bounds of their authority. One of the more extremist judges did try to charge this administration with contempt - it was tossed. So the admin tried to charge the judge with misconduct, which was also tossed. It's just a lot of back and forth nonsense with checks and balances generally still working okayish.

So for an example from the previous administration, they wanted race based admissions for colleges. That is obviously illegal and unconstitutional. After the Supreme Court predictably ruled against them, they worked to circumvent their ruling in various ways including in a 'Dear Colleagues' letter [1] offering guidance on ways universities could achieve a racial quota while remaining within the bounds of the law, effectively laying out a proposed blueprint for intentional Disparate Impact [2], which is *drum roll* also illegal.

The main difference you're seeing in contemporary times is the way the media is spinning everything, intentionally looking to foment conflict and radicalism. We live in amoral times and so working around the judges and legal systems is framed primarily in terms of who's doing it.

[1] - https://web.archive.org/web/20241127174625/https://www.ed.go...

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#372

Post by saubeidl »

somenameforme wrote: post #365
saubeidl wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did not have a right to stay in Germany as a Jew either. My point exactly.

This is both technically and logically incorrect. From a technical point of view - it's just wrong. Jews were persecuted and encouraged to leave, yet never formally expelled from Germany. And as the Nazis moved towards genocide, they moved in the other direction and made it impossible for Jews to leave the country. But from a logical point of view, it also fails, even in a parallel reality where you were right. Count…

Your core assumptions are incorrect. Jews were not considered German Reich citizens. [0]

Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Classifications...

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#373

Post by somenameforme »

saubeidl wrote: post #372
somenameforme wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is both technically and logically incorrect. From a technical point of view - it's just wrong. Jews were persecuted and encouraged to leave, yet never formally expelled from Germany. And as the Nazis moved towards genocide, they moved in the other direction and made it impossible for Jews to leave the country. But from a logical point of view, it also fails, even in a parallel reality where you were right. Count…

Your core assumptions are incorrect. Jews were not considered German Reich citizens. [0] Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Classifications...

Your link does not conflict with anything I said. Jews were never formally expelled from Germany. You might note the page you link even lays out various rights for Jews living within Germany. In any case, this would not change the issue even had they been expelled, for reasons already mentioned.

Those who do not read their links are doomed to misrepresent them.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#374

Post by Gud »

account42 wrote: post #210
viraptor wrote: post #55

Since there's quite a few people here working at US companies with access to lots of user data, but they may not have decision making capacity, I just thought I'll link the Simple Sabotage Field Manual, out of context and for no reason at all https://www.cia.gov/static/5c875f3ec660e092cf893f60b4a288df/... If some data is shared with an external entity, it likely needs to be included in a few usual disclaimers, with a…

Might I suggest to instead reflect on why you are working in an industry that collects all this data.

To conduct field sabotage

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#375

Post by seanmcdirmid »

somenameforme wrote: post #371
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama and to a lesser extent Biden weren't soft on illegal immigration, but they did two things that differ from the current administration: * They followed the law. Crackdowns like the one Trump is taking are only possible if you treat law as a fluid concept and ignore judges consistently. A democrat is never going to get around that, and yes, laws can be changed, but notice how Trump isn't even bothering to do that…

Judges aren't powerless. If an administration genuinely ignores a judge's lawful ruling, they can charged with contempt, with penalties up to imprisonment. But there's a lot of judicial activism leading to 'creative' rulings. Like the Supreme Court, Federal judges are appointed with life terms. And they can be even more impactful on a day-to-day basis, especially when they intentionally step outside the bounds of the…

Judges aren’t powerless, they can always ask the executive to enforce their rulings (except when it’s the executive who’s disobeying their rulings…oops).

Yes, that poor justice lawyer who broke down when the judge berated her that they were just ignoring his rulings, the lawyer replied that being sent to jail for contempt would at least let her get some sleep!

So you shifted from immigration to DEI stuff? Yes, white people no longer get preferential admission like they once did and it’s somehow now racist, do you even realize how bad you guys sound? Anyways, yes, Obama looked for places in the law where he could do things, which I guess you will just claim is just as bad as ignoring laws and rulings straight up?

The main difference is that we literally elected a fascist with dementia as President. And you guys would claim media bias if the press simply played videos of Trump talking.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#376

Post by saubeidl »

somenameforme wrote: post #373
saubeidl wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your core assumptions are incorrect. Jews were not considered German Reich citizens. [0] Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Classifications...

Your link does not conflict with anything I said. Jews were never formally expelled from Germany. You might note the page you link even lays out various rights for Jews living within Germany. In any case, this would not change the issue even had they been expelled, for reasons already mentioned. Those who do not read their links are doomed to misrepresent them.

You had a whole long paragraph about how it's all totally different this time because the Jews were German citizens.

Except they were not and your whole point was wrong.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#377

Post by donkeybeer »

somenameforme wrote: post #285
donkeybeer wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An employees actions would be a matter of judgment between the company leadership and themsleves, I don't understand how it's a criminal matter. To the outside entity it's a business contract, to the company it's an internal matter if and how to deal with any specific activities of the employee.

You're granting an employee a special status that doesn't exist. Imagine a random person working to undermine a contract between the government and a business, motivated by an effort to obstruct law enforcement from enforcing the law. I'm sure you'd agree that this would obviously be illegal - that doesn't change simply because the person happens to be working for the business in question.

And no I don't think it's illegal. You seem deeply confused, where is the "obstruction"? If there is obstruction there should be a specific court order and the parties involved, otherwise it's just business. Do you think say, telling a amazon delivery driver who's asking for the location of some address a bs route is illegal?

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#378

Post by somenameforme »

saubeidl wrote: post #376
somenameforme wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link does not conflict with anything I said. Jews were never formally expelled from Germany. You might note the page you link even lays out various rights for Jews living within Germany. In any case, this would not change the issue even had they been expelled, for reasons already mentioned. Those who do not read their links are doomed to misrepresent them.

You had a whole long paragraph about how it's all totally different this time because the Jews were German citizens. Except they were not and your whole point was wrong. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

You're engaging in banal semantics, in lieu of any form of logical or meaningful debate. When I say "citizen" obviously I am referring to the contemporary usage where you'd call somebody who is of a country - a citizen of that country. In the past this was not the case in many places where people could be legally within their own county, yet not considered civilians. An example you may be more familiar with is slaves in America.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#379

Post by donkeybeer »

hikkerl wrote: post #352
donkeybeer wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Where's the bad faith? You made a really dumb argument and got a simple factual response. And you still failed to engage with that response instead making up imaginary persecution.

[flagged]

You had a chance to respond to the simple factual claims in this message and you still instead used your reply to hilariously claim down voting is censorship where there literally was no moderator involvement therefore literally nothing preventing you from responding. If you think downvoting is censorship why are you not on a website that doesn't have downvoting? You probably also think marriage between peoples of different countires is violent genocide given your hysterics in magnifying simple events into the dramatic and extreme.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#380

Post by saubeidl »

somenameforme wrote: post #378
saubeidl wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had a whole long paragraph about how it's all totally different this time because the Jews were German citizens. Except they were not and your whole point was wrong. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

You're engaging in banal semantics, in lieu of any form of logical or meaningful debate. When I say "citizen" obviously I am referring to the contemporary usage where you'd call somebody who is of a country - a citizen of that country. In the past this was not the case in many places where people could be legally within their own county, yet not considered civilians. An example you may be more familiar with is slaves…

These banal semantics are the legalistic excuses used by genocidal regimes to justify the unjustifiable and to assuade the conscience of collaborators.

A close mirror of what is happening in this thread, if you will.

Post reply on HN