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Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

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Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#371
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole GNU / Red Hat platform is this way. Try switching out Glibc. You get the same "you have to use all our stuff" dependencies.

Musl mostly works. I had more trouble taking out bash, because of all the random bashisms.

On my system I forked dash to create 'bolderdash.' Right now it's pretty basic, I have changed little (just did some cleanup), but I did add in a couple tweaks to enhance bash compatibility. The goal is a complete refactor, more compatibility with bash, and much better command line editing etc, while still remaining sleek and lightweight.

I'm also forking musl to create 'powrlibc.' It will have a lot better glibc compatibility, as well as better optimizations and some other improvements.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#372
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use runit on my production workstation and don't think about it; it just works.

Same with systemd.

Except for all those who've accidentally blown their legs off with it, of course.

Just ask the guy who bricked his motherboard due to a systemd bug where his firmware wasn't write protected and got destroyed by a 'rm -rf' command. lol

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#373
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need both Both can devolve into empire building. We need both to be transparent and open.

[flagged]

Yes, this times a thousand. If we treat people like slaves, they become slaves. Treat them as if they are smart, and they will become smart. It's as simple as that.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#374

The proof in the end that SystemD is a cancer in the Linux ecosystem. Officially it is just a stack and you can decide to use another one if you don't like it. Unofficially RedHat money ensured that other critical stacks will depend heavily on it so that you can't easily swap without replacing the whole ecosystem.

Where did you get that sweet RedHat money? I feel like I'm missing out, I'm happily using systemd, where are my RedHatBucks! Seriously, I would not ever go back to a house of cards of bash and shell scripts of an init system. systemd solves actual problems and gets shit done, with a level of consistency that cannot be achieved by LEGO-like wet-dreams of UNIX worshippers. My favorite example is systemd-resolve and sys…

Systemd is a giant pile of bugs. It's shitware.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you get that sweet RedHat money? I feel like I'm missing out, I'm happily using systemd, where are my RedHatBucks! Seriously, I would not ever go back to a house of cards of bash and shell scripts of an init system. systemd solves actual problems and gets shit done, with a level of consistency that cannot be achieved by LEGO-like wet-dreams of UNIX worshippers. My favorite example is systemd-resolve and sys…

It's like the good old time of Windows. You asked users, they would say that Windows is great, they don't have problems, works better than Linux. Oh do I get some error popups and crashes sometimes? Indeed just I forgot, I'm so used to close them without reading the message... Systemd and co broke so many many things and so often that it is hard to count. A lot of things possible before are not anymore because of thi…

+1. Some people just have zero standards. They apparently WANT to be abused.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#376

> Understanding the boot process is a big part of that. systemd is about 1678 "C" files plus many data files. System V is "22" C files plus about 50 short bash scripts and data files. Systemd is basically the Windowsfication of Linux. I'm always surprised by the people that champion it who also used to shit on Windows with the registry or whatever. Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a thing.

Pedantic but systemd is inspired by MacOS launchd, not by Windows services. It has nothing akin to the registry, which even microsoft admits is a pain on windows. Oh, and usually people shit on windows for many reasons, but some of the very core features of the OS are robust and the Linux crowd could take a hint. Like, you know, the notion of service at the OS-level and not some random bash script that nohup'd a bina…

We generally aren't in the habit of using "random" scripts to do anything. They're usually carefully developed to do exactly what we need them to do, precisely, and nothing more. Not the giant pile of buggy ass code and security nightmare that is systemd.

By the way, you don't seem to be aware that you can use any language you want to create startup "scripts" including compiled binaries, if you hate shell scripting so much.

Do you even know any shell script? Serious question. Many 'bash' haters know nothing about the language--starting with calling it 'bash' instead of 'shell script.' There are several different flavors just of shell scripting languages, and bash is only one.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first version of UNIX was released in 1971 and the first version of Windows NT in 1993. So UNIX is only about 60% older than NT. Both OSes have "stood the test of time", though one passed it with a dominant market share, whereas the other didn't. And systemd is heavily inspired by NT. Time flies fast, faster than recycled arguments. :)

I'm confused as to which OS is the one that passed the other with dominant market share. Last I checked, Linux is everywhere, and Windows just keeps getting worse with every iteration. I'm not sure I'd be smugly pronouncing anything about the superiority of Windows if I were a Microsoft guy today. It's not surprising that systemd was heavily inspired by NT. That's exactly what Poettering was paid to create, by his em…

Linux is "everywhere" only if you count Android, which is not very Unix-like.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with systemd.

Except for all those who've accidentally blown their legs off with it, of course. Just ask the guy who bricked his motherboard due to a systemd bug where his firmware wasn't write protected and got destroyed by a 'rm -rf' command. lol

No software is perfect. Not sysvinit (and it's bash scripts from different vendors), nor systemd. Errors happen. At least for me systemd is a net positive.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are winning as in "we have more freedom to do as we like without a bunch of lawyers breathing down our necks." Freedom and liberty are what I value. There is no harm occurring to software as a result of more freedom or more liberty. Quite to the contrary. Is your Golden Rule "you will use 'my' software exactly how I dictate, or else I'll call my dogs to attack you"? That's not the one I was taught. I release all m…

Why are you acting so strange and making up misinterpretations of what I wrote? You depend on lawyers either way, whichever license you use, I fail to see how copyright law can be implemented and defended without lawyers. The golden rule is simple, anyone can look it up, I really don't understand what difficulty you have that made you make up such a strange "not even wrong" theory about it. "do to others what you wou…

> You depend on lawyers either way, whichever license you use

No, in fact I don't. Indeed, I go far out of my way to avoid these parasites entirely, and anyone who depends on them. I don't give a damn what anyone does with my software. I don't need the attorneys to do anything.

For accusing me of "misinterpreting" what you wrote, you seem to be quite confused yourself. What part of "public domain" don't you understand? The means I don't give a shit what you do with the code. You can decide for yourself. You know, the mature, unselfish approach. Busybodies and control freaks hate this one simple trick.

> Regarding freedoms, let us take this scenario.

Here we go, lol. We're headed down the rabbit hole straight to the juicy caramel center of your flawed thinking.

> Your small company depend on a complex bsd library thats hard to replicate. It gets the attention of a much larger company, they fork it make various changes to make it much better and keep it closed, their product kills yours.

Sounds like you had a very poor business model. Probably because you have no idea what you're doing. Your monetization strategy failed. Pick yourself back up and try again.

The solution is not Big Brother and his machine guns to force others to comply with your dictates. (i.e. the lawyers and legal system, if I have to spell it out for you.)

> While, if it was GPL (or AGPL as its needed today)

AGPL is strongly avoided by almost everyone, for good reason. It's even more of a cancer than the GPL.

> the company either has to redevelop it inhouse if they wish to serve it as product to the public without releasing its sources, or they do the same thing as in the bsd case, they make a much improved version...and you have equal access to the same sources, you can take that and pivot upon it instead of your company dying.

...or they just decide to develop their own version from scratch instead, keep it closed source from day one, and you get nothing at all. Happens all the time.

If you were truly a shit-hot developer you would not be concerned about anyone ripping you off. You'd know you're so creative and putting out so much quality effort on a consistent basis that you'd never worry about being surpassed by anyone.

Big company thought of a good idea to add to your big pile of good ideas? No problem. Copy that and come out with another good idea or two for him to steal. If they're always imitating you, then that means you're the industry leader, doesn't it?

If you're not the industry leader however, because you really only had one good idea and Big Company has more, then what right do you have to try and Stop Progress just for your own selfish ends? That's what this all boils down to: selfishness, due to insecurity.

Your mentality is completely foreign to a true winner, but oh-so-common among the insecure midwits. They're always deathly afraid that their One Thing will get ripped off and they will be left with nothing.

It's a scarcity mentality. That's the problem. It's all in your head.

You're a squirrel with one little nut that you cling to desperately, in hopes that nobody else will grab it. You make all your life about protecting that nut at all costs. You're so glad that Big Brother offers you his machine guns to help you protect it. You don't care about the harm that comes from bringing thugs with guns into the picture to push people around. You're just desperate to protect Your Thing, so you will accept anything that you believe will help this end. It's the same broken mentality that manifests itself everywhere else besides software also. Nothing new under the sun.

Do not pretend that I don't understand you far better than you know yourself, or that I am misinterpreting you in some way. I've seen ten thousand of your type if I've seen one. You're everywhere, especially on HN. I'm well aware of what your mentality is. The root of the problem is your insecurity.

> Its very simple, more or less mathematical game theory.

You don't have a clue about how economics actually works--which is typical for those of your loudly expressed opinions. But you think of yourself as some enlightened game theorist. Not quite.

The bottom line is, you can't FORCE people to behave how you want through your favorite legal fiction or any other, and you damn sure should never try, as it's a fool's errand that only leads to tears. One of the basic laws of the universe.

The people who created GPL knew this from day 1. That's exactly why they created it to be the way it is. Irt was an act of sabotage. This knowledge is currently far above your level however, and is likely to remain so for a long time to come; probably forever.

The world is not falling and BSD is winning the license war for good reason. End of discussion. It's all over but your crying.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you acting so strange and making up misinterpretations of what I wrote? You depend on lawyers either way, whichever license you use, I fail to see how copyright law can be implemented and defended without lawyers. The golden rule is simple, anyone can look it up, I really don't understand what difficulty you have that made you make up such a strange "not even wrong" theory about it. "do to others what you wou…

> You depend on lawyers either way, whichever license you use No, in fact I don't. Indeed, I go far out of my way to avoid these parasites entirely, and anyone who depends on them. I don't give a damn what anyone does with my software. I don't need the attorneys to do anything. For accusing me of "misinterpreting" what you wrote, you seem to be quite confused yourself. What part of "public domain" don't you understan…

>...or they just decide to develop their own version from scratch instead, keep it closed source from day one, and you get nothing at all. Happens all the time.

You again seem very confused. Its exactly the same as they closing up a bsd fork. So how is the outcome or incentive any different? With bsd they can do that without any effort, with gpl at least they have the friction and may deem it too much of a friction. Google's fuchsia attempt failed despite its behemoth size, Android is still linux.

How exactly is it a sabotage? You are again making up utter absolute fucking crap out of thin air and acting retarded making up an entire fantasy universe in your head.

Since you are such a smartass wanker, tell me this, how is the other company being forced to release their changes making the market less competitive? On contrary, this makes it more competitive, since everyone is forced to compete to this level now, they themselves will have to keep developing something better, and again paying the inhouse cost if they wanna be jealous.

AGPL is strongly avoided by...yes companies who live off of turning existing libraries into websites...who'd have thought, hardly a surprise why and who avoids it.

Big company can add a good idea, but big company has big resources. I am telling you that you can now pivot on their changes and putting them under the pressure cooker again: more competition. Competition is nice.

How the fuck is a simple license that nobody is forced to use a "sabotage", are you really even thinking? How much fucked in the head can someone be to think a completely legal and simple license is a "sabotage"? A "sabotage" against what or whom? If its a sabotage, then protest whatever legal framework allowed it. Do you disagree with copyright, is that what you are saying?

If you disagree with copyright, then I hope you have no problem with taking the source code of competitors by any means. After all, if licenses are bad, and government enforcement of copyright is bad, why should copying and releasing a company's internal sources be bad?

If this is a "scarcity" mentality, then the entire history of Mathematics for the past few centuries is a scarcity mentality. If you are man enough to follow through, then say it out right in the reply that you believe Mathematics is a scarcity mentality.

I mean if I wanted to win at all costs, why shouldn't I steal your code and release it and make life harder for you. Or if I wanted to be a real winner, why don't I go and shoot you.

Tell me again moron, how the fuck does a license "force" you, who the fuck is "forcing" you to use gpl if you dislike gpl? I don't even know how deep a level of mental illness one can have to imagine someone with guns is coming out to kill you and rape you and force you to use GPL programs and libraries. Are you even thinking man? This is literal violent paranoid psychosis level of insanity. You are fucked in the head beyond repair.

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