Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who in their right mind would buy a robot from Tesla anyway.
That's what we thought about satellite internet and here we are
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Tesla is committing automotive suicide
371–380 of 458 posts
Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
Outside of the personal opinions of Musk, what is the most annoying for me is the constant false promises. They sell cars based on promises that a missing function will work in a few months/years and that your car will be compatible. With the years of feedback we have now, we know that those were not promises but lies. Other brands sell as-is cars, without empty promises. (outside the stupid "perfect outback trip" in…
Thanks for the thoughtful response. You know what, I do feel a bit conned by this vision only implementation. It wasn't obvious when we test drove it, and they didn't mention it. When we picked the car up, on the shop floor, before it had even moved we saw the "Park Assist Degraded" warning and questioned it. They assured us it just needed time to calibrate. It has never gone away. It will never go away. As a consume…
>He did push us into the EV era.
Yes, definitely and a lot of people (me included) where eyeing Tesla cars until the cybertruck/politics debacle.
>Incompetence before malice and so on.
At first, maybe, the Tesla 3 was announced for 30k$ and had a starting price of 35K$, acceptable. But the cybertruck announced at 40K$ sold at 60K$, less so.
>As a consumer, I'm pissed off. I do feel conned.
I can easily imagine that, I'm not a costumer and I feel conned.
Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide
#373What makes this move even more incredulous is that none of the two market they want to move towards are proven markets: - Waymo is generating less than 150m in 2025. - Consumer robotics is an absolute unknown. How can the transition be rationally justified? Let alone the valuation.
>Let alone the valuation.
Maybe that's the driver. I always figured keeping Musk on was a sort of suicide pact, without Musk the company might be more traditionally valued, but that means the stock would tank. So they have to stick with him.
Staying in autos, eventually folks figure out the math and the stock tanks ... so they have to keep moving and keeping that sort of aspirational stock price.
Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
EVs are a solved problem, but as amelius notes the real tech is the battery. Tesla + Panasonic has a built in advantage in terms of battery manufacturing. Tesla has a massive amount of capital, if they put it into reducing and scaling manufacturing of vehicles and batteries, I think they could probably win. Now maybe Telsa has looked at the numbers and decided they can't win and are choosing to pivot rather than die…
> It seems like the motivation here is that Musk is aligning Tesla to a narrative that justify the absurd stock price, even if that narrative isn't reality. Since Tesla stock has always been 90% based on the narrative, the narrative is the reality (and the product) of Tesla, and the actual machinery made and sold are just props and decorations to create the impression of it. Maybe they should rebrand themselves as po…
Kia is making these incredibly popular cheap EVs and who knows who their CEO is? Probably some middle aged Korean in a business suit.
Automotive industry versus tech industry.
Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
If GM killed it to keep it from succeeding, then there is massive precedent to never reuse the tech. In fact, their NiMH battery patents were sold to Texaco/Chevron who held them close and never let anyone use them. From that point, they couldn't follow-up without dumping even more cash into it, effectively burying it. Until new lithium battery tech matured, there was no way to do it again.
>If GM killed it to keep it from succeeding They didn't, and this is just absurd. Not only were electric cars available since the very beginning of cars , but they've always been available as niche options. There are tens of electric cars that postdate the EV1 and predate the Tesla. Do you even know their names? We have stupidly cheap gas. An electric car has only ever been a curiosity for America. Even now, the prim…
I agree with this.
Cheap gas, car culture and the incredibly long distances makes America a very different place from the urban centres of the Netherlands, China and Korea.
Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
A million robots making $1k a month is $12b a year, but you need to actually produce the robots, maintain them, train the AI, own the data centers. Also, if you take 1 million jobs, do you think that might cause demand to drop for services?
No, automation doesn't reduce jobs, i.e. doesn't reduce consumer spending, as consumer spending is determined by output, which automation boosts. The savings from automation in a particular sector are spent elsewhere — wherever services are more costly (in labor). That's the dynamic behind Say's law, which shows that spending on less automatable jobs like barbers and physical therapists increases as automation reduce…
I understand this is a well-developed economic theory and I am complete uninformed, but this doesn't make intuitive sense at all.
If 1 million prep cooks are replaced by robots, will food become cheap enough that those prep cooks can all get jobs as barbers, and the money people spend on food will shift to haircuts?
Will the food be so cheap that all those prep cooks can afford to learn to cut hair?
Also consider the money velocity of a human vs a robot. A human is probably paycheck to paycheck spending everything they earn. Robot earnings go back to company, which makes the stock go up, 90% of which is owned by billionaires who just keep hoarding and hoarding.
Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also, how will these robots make money? They are a less capable human. Humans who aren't skilled don't make much money.
Almost all developed economies are running into a fertility crisis right now, with labor shortages already appearing in the frontrunners of the trend, such as Germany. Human work is going to cost more in the future, and immigration from countries such as Thailand or Vietnam is already slowing down. Even a mediocre robot will be sought after if it is the only choice you have.
I understand that. It's my personal opinion that one of the causes of low birth rates is that we continually choose to have robots solve our problems instead of choosing a human.
I think we could increase birth rates by making a taxation scheme in which the most marginally effective way to solve a problem is with a human, paid a wage which allows for that occupation to be a lifelong career.
Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide
#378So, let the MDS unfold in hackernews
Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide
#379Help me understand this: why would anybody buy a Tesla car today, unless it was incredibly well-priced with respect to the competition? Seems to me, yes, this kills Tesla cars.
uh, cuz Model Y is awesome?
and FSD is complete?
Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide
#380I have a Model Y with AI hardware version 4. It is phenomenal at self-driving, and if your impression of FSD is a year old or older, then you are woefully out of date in understanding where the tech is today. If I could, I would send my own grade school child off to her friend's houses and extracurricular activities in my car unaccompanied. It is safer than buses, taxis, and me. Not since Tesla created the first econ…
its MDS, the same thing as TDS.
FSD can be working right before people's eyes, and yet they only believe what they read on news and not what they see in front of their eyes.