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Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

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Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#371

Post by lokar »

Aurornis wrote: post #5

FYI BitLocker is on by default in Windows 11. The defaults will also upload the BitLocker key to a Microsoft Account if available. This is why the FBI can compel Microsoft to provide the keys. It's possible, perhaps even likely, that the suspect didn't even know they had an encrypted laptop. Journalists love the "Microsoft gave " framing because it makes Microsoft sound like they're handing these out because they lik…

This is a really bad take

The choice is not between honoring the warrant and breaking the law.

They can go to a judge and fight the warrant. Other companies have done this.

Microsoft won’t, one more reason I will never use anything from them.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#372

Post by d1sxeyes »

eszed wrote: post #147
d1sxeyes wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes it vanishingly unlikely. On a 16GB RAM computer with that rate, you can expect 64 random bit flips per month. So roughly you could expect this happen roughly once every two hundred million years. Assuming there are about 2 billion Windows computers in use, that’s about 10 computers a year that experience this bit flip.

> 10 computers a year experience this bit flip That's wildly more than I would have naively expected to experience a specific bit-flip. Wow!

~800 bit flips per year per computer. 2 billion computers with 800 bit flips each is 1,600,000,000,000 (one point six trillion) bit flips.

Big numbers are crazy.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#373

Post by taberiand »

jbstack wrote: post #286
taberiand wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a developer, try NixOS. The code based configuration can be daunting but LLMs are very good at writing it.

Not sure it's good as a starter distro, but other than that I agree. I was put off NixOS for a long time despite loving the principles behind it. Then a few weeks ago I had ChatGPT give me a short course on it, including flakes and the basics of the Nix language. I completed that in a few hours and achieved more than I ever had reading the Nix docs and blogs etc. Now I'm able to use an LLM to help me write flakes whi…

That's what I'm getting at - the nixos learning curve is flattened out completely with LLMs to the point that I do recommend it as a starter distro for anyone technically competent (as it's still crucial to actually read and understand what the LLM produces)

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#374

Post by beeflet »

citizenpaul wrote: post #368
Aurornis wrote: post #5

FYI BitLocker is on by default in Windows 11. The defaults will also upload the BitLocker key to a Microsoft Account if available. This is why the FBI can compel Microsoft to provide the keys. It's possible, perhaps even likely, that the suspect didn't even know they had an encrypted laptop. Journalists love the "Microsoft gave " framing because it makes Microsoft sound like they're handing these out because they lik…

None of this matters. XKCD. Hit him with this $5 wrench until he gives you the keys.

Mass surveillance through $5 wrench (and massive thug salary) attacks do not scale, but mass surveillance through turn-key decryption does.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#375

Post by nitwit005 »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #76
vik0 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always count on someone coming along and defending the multi-trillion dollar corporation that just so happens to take a screenshot of your screen every few seconds (among many, many - too many other things)

I big demographic of HN users are people who want to be the multi-trillion dollar corporation so it’s not too surprising. In this case though I think they are right. And I’m a big time Microsoft hater.

This happens everywhere. There is a reason there are memes about people defending multi-billion dollar corporations.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#376

Post by Aloisius »

drysine wrote: post #97
tokyobreakfast wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>even a cosmic ray flipping the "do not upload" bit in memory Stats on this very likely scenario?

At google "more than 8% of DIMM memory modules were affected by errors per year" [0] More on the topic: Single-event upset[1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECC_memory [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-event_upset

> At google "more than 8% of DIMM memory modules were affected by errors per year"

That's all errors including permanent hardware failure, not just transient bit flips or from cosmic rays.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#377

Post by justsomehnguy »

d1sxeyes wrote: post #121
strbean wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IBM estimated in 1996 that one error per month per 256 MiB of RAM was expected for a desktop computer. From the wikipedia article on "Soft error", if anyone wants to extrapolate.

That makes it vanishingly unlikely. On a 16GB RAM computer with that rate, you can expect 64 random bit flips per month. So roughly you could expect this happen roughly once every two hundred million years. Assuming there are about 2 billion Windows computers in use, that’s about 10 computers a year that experience this bit flip.

I saw a computer with 'system33', 'system34' folders personally. Also you would never actually know it happened because... it's not ECC. And with ECC memory we replace a RAM stick every two-three months explicitly because ECC error count is too high.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#378

Post by freedomben »

thewebguyd wrote: post #177
zdragnar wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe it took this long. We have mandatory identification for all kinds of things that are illegal to purchase or engage in under a certain age. Nobody wants to prosecute 12 year old kids for lying when the clicked the "I am at least 13 years old" checkbox when registering an account. The only alternative is to do what we do with R-rated movies, alcohol, tobacco, firearms, risky physical activities (i.e. bu…

The problem is the implementation is hasty. When I go buy a beer at the gas station, all I do is show my ID to the cashier. They look at it to verify DOB and then that's it. No information is stored permanently in some database that's going to get hacked and leaked. We can't trust every private company that now has to verify age to not store that information with whatever questionable security. If we aren't going to…

> When I go buy a beer at the gas station, all I do is show my ID to the cashier. They look at it to verify DOB and then that's it. No information is stored permanently in some database that's going to get hacked and leaked.

That's how it should be, but it's not how it is. Many places now scan your ID into their computer (the computer which, btw, tracks everything you buy). It may not go to a government database (yet) but it's most certainly being stored.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#379

Post by egorfine »

thewebguyd wrote: post #177
zdragnar wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe it took this long. We have mandatory identification for all kinds of things that are illegal to purchase or engage in under a certain age. Nobody wants to prosecute 12 year old kids for lying when the clicked the "I am at least 13 years old" checkbox when registering an account. The only alternative is to do what we do with R-rated movies, alcohol, tobacco, firearms, risky physical activities (i.e. bu…

The problem is the implementation is hasty. When I go buy a beer at the gas station, all I do is show my ID to the cashier. They look at it to verify DOB and then that's it. No information is stored permanently in some database that's going to get hacked and leaked. We can't trust every private company that now has to verify age to not store that information with whatever questionable security. If we aren't going to…

> We should still be able to verify age while remaining psuedo-anonymous.

That would completely defeat the purpose. The goal is to identify online users, not protect children.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#380

Post by beeflet »

concinds wrote: post #356
ferrouswheel wrote: post #45

It's interesting how many comments these days are like, "well of course". Back in the day hackernews had some fire and resistance. Too many tech workers decided to rollover for the government and that's why we are in this mess now. This isn't an argument about law, it's about designing secure systems. And lazy engineers build lazy key escrow the government can exploit.

The median user's threat model doesn't include the government, but does include data loss, forgetting the password, or a thief stealing your laptop. Microsoft struck the right balance. I'm glad the knee-jerk absolutists are marginal, for one. A world run by you people would be much worse for anyone who isn't you.

The median user would be better off in a society where computers are not needed for daily life. The median user doesn't understand computers. In their life, computers only manfiest as a tool of control imposed by the people who understand computers over those that don't.

This is one such example.

This sort of utilitarian nitpicking over the convenience of a "median" user is like maximizing the happiness of a cow on a factory farm. The cow would be better off if it did not exist at all. It is a matter of freedom and dignity.

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