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European Alternatives

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Re: European Alternatives

#371

Post by hermanzegerman »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #366
kergonath wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are deluded. Nobody "gave Europe a sweet deal". Those are the rules of the land. Companies are free to reject them, in which case they just cannot do business here. We did not force them to come. The fact that they are still obviously making tons of money in the EU should tell you how you are being taken advantage of.

So you acknowledge that this point about "protection money" (the point I was originally responding to) is nonsense then. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46736657

Protection Money is as much nonsense as "Europeans are ripping off Americans in Trade". Because they always conveniently leave out services, which would make the Balance between the US/EU even

Re: European Alternatives

#372

Post by hermanzegerman »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #370
hermanzegerman wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the other guy said you're completely deluded. Nobody "gave" us cheaper credit card fees from MasterCard or Visa. They were the result of a regulatory process. MasterCard or Visa also aren't operating as a charity in Europe. Before the capping of fees was introduced, their acceptance was shit at most businesses, and most bank consumers also didn't have one, as opposed to cards of the national scheme which had lower…

So initially MasterCard/Visa profits in Europe are "protection money". Then it comes out that MasterCard/Visa fees in Europe are actually far lower than in the US. Now the Europeans are laughing at the Americans for being suckers. This interaction basically sums up the entire EU/US relationship and the absurdity of Europe's rhetoric around it. Copy/paste this template, change a few words, and it applies pretty much e…

We don't laugh at Americans for being suckers, we feel sorry for them that they have to live with all this nonsense, and their current horrible administration.

And we also look with horror because most of the bullshit in the US is coming to Europe with a 20 year delay

Re: European Alternatives

#373

Post by kergonath »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #366
kergonath wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are deluded. Nobody "gave Europe a sweet deal". Those are the rules of the land. Companies are free to reject them, in which case they just cannot do business here. We did not force them to come. The fact that they are still obviously making tons of money in the EU should tell you how you are being taken advantage of.

So you acknowledge that this point about "protection money" (the point I was originally responding to) is nonsense then. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46736657

Right. It’s not really protection money. It’s just a duopoly under the control of a rogue foreign power that control any entity’s access to customer’s payments. So even if it’s not protection money, the risk of blackmail is high. It is a strategic weakness.

Re: European Alternatives

#374

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

kergonath wrote: post #358
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This website appears to indicate that Visa/Mastercard fees are about 6x as high in the US vs EU: https://wallethub.com/edu/credit-card-interchange-fees-by-co... The EU had such a good deal with the US. But they couldn't resist making fun of us. They made fun of us for our military spending while we deterred Russia. They made fun of us for our health spending while we subsidized their drug development costs. They made…

> The EU had such a good deal with the US. There are regulations. Both Visa and Mastercard were happy with those and made quite a lot of money from their business in the EU. They absorbed and merged with local alternatives and competitors. It’s a bit rich to complain after the game has been going on for a while that the rules are as they are: they’ve always been that way and if they were not happy, they could just ha…

I'm not complaining about Visa or Mastercard fees in the US.

I am pointing out the absurdity of the original European claim that such fees are "protection money" to the US, when the EU is getting a sweetheart deal relative to the US. It's typical disingenuous European rhetoric.

Re: European Alternatives

#375

Post by whackernews »

nickdothutton wrote: post #277
direwolf20 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you want to be a customer of a company with extreme revenue? That only means you'll pay too much money.

Greater chance of survival, greater chance of being a winner in any consolidation in the industry, generally revenue translates to higher share price which means ability to acquire useful and interesting companies, likely lower cost of capital for borrowing for build-outs. Attracts greater talent with better packages. Now as teeny tiny (personal) customer of these guys... I'm not really going to care about most of th…

[flagged]

Re: European Alternatives

#376

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

kergonath wrote: post #361
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I am very happy to see Europe develop its own military-industrial complex. That way, whenever something bad happens in the world, you will be "complicit" if you sit by, and "imperialist" if you take action. It's a lot of fun!

Come on, it’s already been that way for more than a century. Old imperial powers cannot do a thing or its opposite without endless recriminations. We’re used to it.

For the past few decades I've only seen the US constantly criticized as either "complicit" or "imperialist". We tried to take responsibility for everything and it got us nothing but hate. Hopefully it will be Europe's turn soon.

Re: European Alternatives

#377

Post by hermanzegerman »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #360
pixodaros wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, Medicare in the USA is forbidden by law from using its big market to drive a hard bargain like most national health services can (Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003). So its like employers paying workers less in jurisdictions where they can't unionize and strike.

That actually changed recently, but The Economist (UK newspaper) whines that Americans will no longer be footing the bill for drug development: https://archive.is/bWwP4 We're done with Europeans treating us as suckers. Doing nice things for Europe leads to nothing but contempt from Europeans.

They correctly point out that useless parasites like the Pharmacy Benefit Managers that I also mentioned to you, are a quite big part of your drug price problem. Yet you seem to refuse to acknowledge it

The system is packed with opaque middlemen such as pharmacy benefit managers, many of which are making big rents

Re: European Alternatives

#378

Post by direwolf20 »

bdangubic wrote: post #323
direwolf20 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you want to be a customer of a company with extreme revenue? That only means you'll pay too much money.

I am a customer of Walmart and Costco, both with extreme revenue and both saving me loads of money

Are you also a customer of Whole Foods?

Re: European Alternatives

#379

Post by whackernews »

ogogmad wrote: post #146

Alternatives to Amazon.com? I'm totally serious when asking about this. I think delivery apps (like the one comically named "Deliveroo") are all potential alternatives to Amazon, but I think they charge a premium.

Lol. What the heck are you using Amazon for? Stop buying shit man. Go outside.

Re: European Alternatives

#380

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

hermanzegerman wrote: post #377
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That actually changed recently, but The Economist (UK newspaper) whines that Americans will no longer be footing the bill for drug development: https://archive.is/bWwP4 We're done with Europeans treating us as suckers. Doing nice things for Europe leads to nothing but contempt from Europeans.

They correctly point out that useless parasites like the Pharmacy Benefit Managers that I also mentioned to you, are a quite big part of your drug price problem. Yet you seem to refuse to acknowledge it The system is packed with opaque middlemen such as pharmacy benefit managers, many of which are making big rents

Certainly the US healthcare system needs reform. But I believe a big reason why we have paid such high drug prices for so long is because congresspeople in the US believed that it was good for us to subsidize drug innovation for the entire world. That era is over. Like I said, you Europeans had a good thing going, but you just couldn't let well enough alone.
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