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AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

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Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#371

Post by tensor »

lossyalgo wrote: post #215
marcianx wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it makes some sense to allow leeway for intelligent "signal processing" using AI (separating out individual tracks, clean-up, etc) vs generating new content with AI. Similarly, say, for video editors, using AI to more intelligently rotoscope (especially with alpha blending in the presence of motion blur - practically impossible to do it manually), would be a great use of AI, removing the non-creative tedium o…

It may be a tedious job to spend days rotoscoping but I personally know people who get paid to do that, and as soon as AI can do it, they will have to go find other work (which they already do, on the side, because the writing is on the wall, but there's a ton of people worldwide who do this kind of work, and that's not the only process being delegated to AI).

We also used to pay people to manually copy books. It's not a good argument.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#372

Post by raphman »

cigar_cigar wrote: post #284
sharkjacobs wrote: post #164

I'm not ideologically opposed to making music with AI, but the dream would be new songs which which showcase the new sounds and musical forms that AI enables, like Believe for autotune, or Rumble for electric guitar, or Autobahn for synths. I want a friend to message me like "Hey, there's some interesting stuff happening in the AI music scene, check out these tracks". But everything I've seen is pastiche, either nove…

I'm a moderately frequent user of Suno and have encountered some unusual AI-generated effects that I've not come across before in more traditionally synthesized music. One is when it attempts to generate vocals without a lyrics prompt. It's gibberish but just on the edge of comprehensibility. Sometimes it'll be entirely spoken word with no accompaniment. Very uncanny. Another is transitioning between vocals and instr…

I'd be interested in hearing a few of those samples and what you made out of them!

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#373

Post by daedrdev »

falloutx wrote: post #325
thorum wrote: post #48

Can’t imagine this policy lasts more than a year or two given the rate that AI tools for music are improving. Once the tech can reliably create high quality dry stems of instruments, backing tracks etc. and automate professional-sounding production work (which most musicians do not currently have access to) everyone is going to be using it even if they won’t admit it publicly.

Why would quality matter, You make a image from Google AI and its instantly marked as Synth ID. It can be easily detected and thrown out if you want to keep the site AI free. We would need AI free places now that AI is so easy and cheap to produce.

People can just run it themselves and some tracks would not be detected

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#374

Post by quickthrowman »

distances wrote: post #117
olivierestsage wrote: post #16

Funny to see this right now. Spotify's promotion of AI music bothered me so much that it has actually pushed me to Bandcamp and the practice of buying music again. It's really fun to build a collection knowing you're supporting the artists, download FLAC files, organize your little "collection" page ... Feels like a renaissance in my relationship with music, the most fun I've had since what.cd. Anyway, love this stan…

I've been reading about Spotify pushing generated music but haven't seen that myself so I'm interested to know in what context it happens. Is it certain music styles? Spotify's own playlists? That smart shuffle feature? I listen mostly in the old school way, full albums of my favourite artists, so I suppose it would be quite unexpected to stumble into AI music this way.

I’m the same as you, I search for artists I like and then listen to albums, saving them in my library. I never see any AI generated music or podcasts because I just listen to music.

I have more than enough music made by humans to listen to for the rest of my life without ever turning to algorithmic recommendations.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#375

Post by raphman »

terminalbraid wrote: post #196
ceroxylon wrote: post #35

It will be interesting to see how/where the line is drawn on "in substantial part", considering that Logic Pro lets you click a button and adjust some sliders to add an (awful, imo) drum/instrument played by AI to your track.

But that's absolutely not generative AI (which bandcamp explicitly stated the policy is for) and it's not even classifiable as traditional AI. The session tracks are just some base patterns selected by sliders attached to options adjust stuff like "play these notes in an inverted chord".

Hmm, a few years ago, such a feature would have been called "AI" in marketing materials, no? Aren't all current GenAI tools in some way "just some base patterns selected by sliders attached to options adjust stuff" - only the 'base patterns' are some weights in a neural network.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#377

Post by raphman »

hmokiguess wrote: post #13

I have a maybe unpopular opinion to share. We now sort of accepted the idea of “vibe coding”, and, even shared appreciation from people who are using it to resuscitate side projects and things they wanted to do but required a lot of work. (Heck, even Linus Torvalds is doing it). Is “Vibe Music / Art” any different? For example, I am not a drummer, say I use Suno to program some drums for me so I can record my guitar…

My impression is that BandCamp is not inherently against using new technology to generate new sounds. This decision seems to be not about "what is art" but about "what is good for BandCamp right now".

As a small platform like BandCamp you do not want to be flooded by cheaply generated AI copies of existing songs / genres - this would alienate both artists and customers and could endanger the whole platform. You also don't want to expose yourself to internal complaints and external copyright claims because someone uploaded hundreds of "Popular work X in the style of popular band Y" songs.

The AI slop avalanche will pass by and probably leave behind some cool stuff. In the meantime, it seems like a sensible option for BandCamp to step aside and evaluate their position in a year or two.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#378

Post by kouteiheika »

kazinator wrote: post #272
don-code wrote: post #123

A few months ago I spoke with the frontman of a local Boston band from the 1980s, who recently re-released a single with the help of AI. The source material was a compact cassette tape from a demo, found in a drawer. He used AI to isolate what would've been individual tracks from the recording, then cleaned them up individually, without AI's help. Does that constitute "wholly or in substantial part"? Would the track…

Suppose we have two image-oriented AI's. One is trained with a set of pairs which match words with images. Vast numbers of images tagged with words. The other is trained on a set of photographs of exactly the same scene from the same vantage point, but one in daylight and the other at night. Suppose all these images are copyrighted and used without permissions. With the one AI, we can do word-to-image to generate an…

> With the one AI, we can do word-to-image to generate an image. Clearly, that is a derived work of the training set of images

> The question of whether AI is stealing material depends exactly on what the training pathway is; what it is that it is learning from the data.

No it isn't. The question of whether AI is stealing material has little to do with the training pathway, but everything to do with scale.

To give a very simple example: is your model a trillion parameter model, but you're training it on 1000 images? It's going to memorize.

Is your model a 3 billion parameter model, but you're training it on trillions of images? It's going to generalize because it simply doesn't physically have the capacity to memorize its training data, and assuming you've deduplicated your training dataset it's not going to memorize any single image.

It literally makes no difference whether you'll use the "trained on the same scene but one in daylight and one at night" or "generate the image based on a description" training objective here. Depending on how you pick your hyperparameters you can trivially make either one memorize the training data (i.e. in your words "make it clearly a derived work of the training set of images").

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#379

Post by indrora »

eleventen wrote: post #119
olivierestsage wrote: post #16

Funny to see this right now. Spotify's promotion of AI music bothered me so much that it has actually pushed me to Bandcamp and the practice of buying music again. It's really fun to build a collection knowing you're supporting the artists, download FLAC files, organize your little "collection" page ... Feels like a renaissance in my relationship with music, the most fun I've had since what.cd. Anyway, love this stan…

Same for me! Switched to Bandcamp + Navidrome and have decided that one of my goals for the year is to find at least 2 albums per month I want to buy. I will shamelessly promote the bandcampsync [1] CLI tool for automating downloads of your bandcamp library and bandcamp-sync-flask [2] wrapper that I built so I could invoke it from the web on my phone after I buy an album. [1] https://github.com/meeb/bandcampsync [2]…

oh my god thank you for showing me that

I had been using a combination of aria2 and a link scraper plugin for years to download bulk out of bandcamp because of how fast their API will time out.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#380

Post by indrora »

nemomarx wrote: post #298
eleventen wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for me! Switched to Bandcamp + Navidrome and have decided that one of my goals for the year is to find at least 2 albums per month I want to buy. I will shamelessly promote the bandcampsync [1] CLI tool for automating downloads of your bandcamp library and bandcamp-sync-flask [2] wrapper that I built so I could invoke it from the web on my phone after I buy an album. [1] https://github.com/meeb/bandcampsync [2]…

What's the navidrome pitch?

Better Plex than plex for music built by people who know what they're doing that uses a common API among different servers and clients, including ones that glue to Sonos, etc.
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