Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The next two years of software engineering

addyosmani.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 403 posts

Re: The next two years of software engineering

#371

Post by qsera »

menaerus wrote: post #364
qsera wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>doctors would have said something similar for their profession Actually that applies to doctors. A doctor who is not curious and is not willing to do learn/research on their own initiative is only a marketing hand of pharma. But it is quite hard for doctors to do any real research independently. They can't really do experiments on real people... Software is really special.

So a software engineer who is not curious enough to invest 15+ hours daily over the course of years is just a marketing hand of ... what ... programming language of their choice or company they work for? Don't get me wrong. I am that guy, who probably over-invested into the development of his skills but I don't think it's a normal thing to expect.

>So a software engineer who is not curious enough to invest 15+ hours daily over the course of years is just a marketing hand of ..

That does not apply here. Because more often than not, we don't prescribe products/services that our clients must go out and buy, without exception.

>it's a normal thing to expect.

It is not a normal thing to expect because in other fields there are few people who can afford to do that. So an employer cannot really pick someone from that pool.

But in software, it is possible if one choose to do it. So the pool is a lot bigger, so it becomes feasible for an employer to pick someone from there, instead of picking from I-am-only-as-good-as-I-am-paid-to-be pool..

Re: The next two years of software engineering

#372

Post by iLoveOncall »

conartist6 wrote: post #184
babblingfish wrote: post #20

My experience hasn't been LLMs automate coding, just speeds it up. It's like I know what I want the solution to be and I'll describe it to the LLM, usually for specific code blocks at a time, and then build it up block-by-block. When I read hacker news people are talking like it's doing much more than that. It doesn't feel like an automation tool to me at all. It just helps me do what I was gonna do anyways, but with…

The best advice to juniors is "do not use AI!" Dunno why the author thinks an AI-enhanced junior can match the "output"of a whole team unless he means in generating lines of code, which is to say tech debt. Being able to put a lot of words on screen is not the accomplishment in programming. It usually means you've gone completely out of your depth.

> Dunno why the author thinks an AI-enhanced junior can match the "output"of a whole team

Because the author has a vested interest in peddling this bullshit given he works on Gemini at Google.

Re: The next two years of software engineering

#373

Post by menaerus »

qsera wrote: post #371
menaerus wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a software engineer who is not curious enough to invest 15+ hours daily over the course of years is just a marketing hand of ... what ... programming language of their choice or company they work for? Don't get me wrong. I am that guy, who probably over-invested into the development of his skills but I don't think it's a normal thing to expect.

>So a software engineer who is not curious enough to invest 15+ hours daily over the course of years is just a marketing hand of .. That does not apply here. Because more often than not, we don't prescribe products/services that our clients must go out and buy, without exception. >it's a normal thing to expect. It is not a normal thing to expect because in other fields there are few people who can afford to do that.…

> That does not apply here. Because more often than not, we don't prescribe products/services that our clients must go out and buy, without exception.

You know that treating patients is not only about picking the right medicament and writing prescriptions? It's about diagnosing, testing the hypotheses, optimizing for the particular patient case, learning about all the specific factors of their environment including the genetics, then we have surgeons, etc.

And yet I don't quite see doctors being on a time spending spree to become exquisite in all of those things. Nor do I see hospitals or clinics doing such knowledge and ability harness tests over their potential employees. Stakes are much higher in medicine than they are in software so it makes no sense at all to make an argument that doctors cannot "afford" it. They can, they have books and practice the same way we do. I don't get to modify the production system every day but yet I am learning constantly of how not to make those same production system go down when I do.

> It is not a normal thing to expect because in other fields there are few people who can afford to do that.

It's not a normal thing in software too, you know? Let's please stop normalizing things which are not normal. If there is one thing that makes me happy in this new era of AI-assisted development is that all this bs is coming to its end.

Re: The next two years of software engineering

#374

Post by theshrike79 »

jmyeet wrote: post #257
maciejzj wrote: post #143

TBH, it all feels like a huge gamble at this point. Neither skills, education, institutional ties, nor current employment can guarantee a stable foundation for life. This hits harder depending on how much money, social capital, or debt you accumulated before this volatility began. If you’ve paid off your debts, bought a house, and stabilized your family life, you’re gambling with how comfortable the coming years will…

I say this without hyperbole: we are (IMHO) on the verge of total systemic collapse. We've had 50+ years of deteriotating worker conditions and a massive concentration of wealth to like 10,000 people. The 1980s crushed the labor movement, to all of our detriment. The GFC destroyed the career prospects of many millenials who discovered their entry-level positions no longer existed so we created a generation that we're…

At one point there will be enough people with no job or no hope who will do the math of "there are 100 million of us and 3000 billionaires" and hopefully have read enough history to learn about the French Revolution and the tools they used.

The only way to prevent this is to guarantee that people without jobs will still have a roof over their heads and enough calories and micronutrients every day to survive - and some entertainment.

Re: The next two years of software engineering

#375

Post by theshrike79 »

jmyeet wrote: post #305
brabel wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re focusing on the US. In Europe, worker protections are great. However, Europe has been lagging behind the US for a couple of decades and the gap has been growing. All tech giants are based in the US or China. Maybe things will collapse in the US now, but very unlikely to do so in Europe unless the impact from the US is so great it propagates to Europe, despite Europe itself not having done the things that cause…

Oh I couldn't disagree more. Europe is on the verge of full-blown fascism. Europe has Reform (UK), AfD (Germany) and National Front (France) as well as Hungary. Europe created the Russia-Ukraine problem by giving their energy security to Russia. Interestingly, this is a (super) rare win for the first Trump administration: forcing Europe to build an LNG port in 2018 [1] and warning against the dangers of dependence on…

> Europe created the Russia-Ukraine problem by giving their energy security to Russia.

It wasn't "given", Russia did it on purpose. There are SO MANY cases of politicians advocating for Russian natural gas or oil as an energy source who were later revealed to be 100% paid for with Russian money.

Re: The next two years of software engineering

#376

Post by s1mplicissimus »

SecretDreams wrote: post #202
abc123abc123 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. This is one of the best arguments for not having kids. I could never imagine putting myself in that uncertain situation. Much better to reduce those risks, and focus on yourself.

Having kids is a personal choice. The stress of having to support them is real and it might mean, at times, you sacrifice more than you would have without kids. It's been entirely worth it for me and I cannot imagine my life without kids. But it's a deeply personal choice and I am not buying or selling the idea. I would just say nobody is ever ready and the fears around having them probably are more irrational than r…

I'm happy for you that you are in a situation where you can afford it. Many can't.

Re: The next two years of software engineering

#377

Post by theshrike79 »

amelius wrote: post #79
tigrezno wrote: post #72

The next two years of software engineering will be the last two years of software engineering (probably).

I don't see the market flooded yet with software that was "so easy to build using LLMs". Last year was, as it seems, just a normal year in terms of global software output.

The software being written isn't coming to "the market". It's all internal development.

Look at smaller SaaS offerings and people selling tiny utility apps, those will go away slowly.

Why would I pay for something when I can make it for my own (or company internal) use in an afternoon?

Re: The next two years of software engineering

#378

Post by sys_64738 »

tibbar wrote: post #258
zipy124 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is mostly software engineering not computer science though. That is but a small sub-section of computer science.

I just don't see the distinction. Looking at it from the other direction: most CS degrees will have you spend a lot of time looking at assembly language, computer architecture, and *nix tools. But none of these are mathematical inevitabilities - they're just a core part of the foundations of software engineering. However, in the decades since this curricula was established, it's clear that the foundation has expanded…

Containerization would be covered in a lecture on OS Concepts. A CS degree isn't to teach you about using containerization. Take a course specific to that.

Re: The next two years of software engineering

#379

Post by qsera »

menaerus wrote: post #373
qsera wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So a software engineer who is not curious enough to invest 15+ hours daily over the course of years is just a marketing hand of .. That does not apply here. Because more often than not, we don't prescribe products/services that our clients must go out and buy, without exception. >it's a normal thing to expect. It is not a normal thing to expect because in other fields there are few people who can afford to do that.…

> That does not apply here. Because more often than not, we don't prescribe products/services that our clients must go out and buy, without exception. You know that treating patients is not only about picking the right medicament and writing prescriptions? It's about diagnosing, testing the hypotheses, optimizing for the particular patient case, learning about all the specific factors of their environment including t…

I am not normalizing anything!

I am just describing the logical behavior of an employer who wants to get the best person for the job.

About the other thing, I think I will let you have the last word since I feel that we are speaking past each other.

Re: The next two years of software engineering

#380

Post by hackmack10 »

AstroBen wrote: post #339
_0l5x wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fresh perspective for me. I'm around 25 and have been struggling with finding some kind of path towards making my career into something sustainable long-term, but never really considered the other side. I think the issue many have on my end is that they don't really have much of anything to stand on while they rebuild yet, whereas they might think that someone more experienced could pivot to business and pe…

Consider people in their 40s have.. A mortgage: if you were assuming a strong income that would continue, you very likely could be forced to sell your house and take a huge loss A family, kids: people relying on you Time: at this point you have retirement plans and financial deadlines you need to hit if it's to ever become a reality God forbid you have any health issues that cost $$$ which tend to come as you age. Ca…

If enough people have nothing left to lose, the French Revolution will most likely be the outcome. Or a working UBI. If programmers aren't safe, I can't imagine most other professions won't be on the chopping block as well.
Post reply on HN