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Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

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Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#371

Post by trymas »

rcxdude wrote: post #170
Zambyte wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if you're playing in to the joke, I can't tell. Streetcars / trams were widely deployed before they were ripped out for the car, driven by lobbyists interested in selling cars. Wondering why no one has bothered with that is starting from a false premise, because people have bothered with that.

I'm well aware that there are multiple options for public transport, but none of them are actually as flexible or as far reaching as cars/taxis. To me this 'but why not trains' on every article about self-driving cars is a tired meme that fails to address that these are not equivalent options. I might as well say "Well, why don't we get rid of these expensive rails and fixed timetables and just lay down some cheap co…

It shouldn't be all black and white (either 100% car use or 100% public transport use).

If you're rural - of course this probably doesn't apply.

If you're suburban - "park and ride" type of thing solves a lot of problems in western Europe already. Drive to nearest hub, hop on a train (that is included in your parking ticket) that has bigger bandwidth comparable up to a 30 lane highway[1], also don't worry about parking in dense downtown as a benefit.

If you're urban, city planners should plan public transport network dense enough so you could walk - at worst do "park and ride" thing again.

Of course there are cases where car still may be fastest and most convenient way to reach your destination (e.g. if you're suburban and need to go to other suburban town), but in big cities (individual) car travel should be a minority.

Compare Japan's, China's mega cities. Whole countries like Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, to LA, SF or other USA's mega cities. It just falls to the Onion trope of `'No Way to Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens`.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_capacity#/media/File:Pas...

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#372

Post by pclmulqdq »

InvertedRhodium wrote: post #367
cjsplat wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is the same law in California, but so many people drift through stop signs that the guidance is close to meaningless. In addition, there are 4-way stop signs all over SF and tourists regularly comment on how they work here. The law is clear - yield to the right, but that is a pretty slow system in congested roads. The local custom in SF is that someone is usually obviously first, rightmost, or just most agg…

I thought the US had a “FIFO” rule for 4 way stop signs? I had to drive through Nevada and Arizona last year so read up on the rules. Keeping track of which cars entered at what time was kind of stressful and I’m pretty sure I didn’t do a good job of it.

The US has a FIFO rule but it only applies once you reach the stop sign itself, so the FIFO is never very deep. Yielding to the person to your right is the tiebreaker if you get there at exactly the same time.

I have seen an increased number of drivers have no idea how to handle 4-way stops, but the rule is relatively simple in practice.

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#373

Post by [deleted] »

philistine wrote: post #70
beAbU wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can further optimize the setup by not installing engines/motors in all of them. So maybe you have one car providing locomotion, with the rest following behind and designed for carrying.

If we do all of that, then we won't need to train them to know how to operate in traffic. Perhaps we can give them a name in honour of that fact?

[deleted]

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#375

Post by watermelon0 »

necovek wrote: post #342

Most intersections I've seen in Serbia cities like Belgrade have "preferential" roads even if they are equally loaded and similarly sized: so, one direction will have either "stop" or "yield" signs, and another will not. Everyone slows down because you don't see the stop/yield sign for the orthogonal streets until you come closer to the intersection. Perhaps we are just more used to traffic lights being off/broken (a…

Priority road sign (yellow diamond) is generally used throughout Europe.

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#376

Post by KptMarchewa »

anal_reactor wrote: post #61
mejutoco wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same setup in the Netherlands, there are right of way signs everywhere that apply when the lights don't work. Most places in Poland have this exact setup. And I say most because I have not seen one that does not, but I am guessing they exist. Maybe some of them have bad visibility even? If one does not respect the yield sign that does not seem a signaling problem.

> that does not seem a signaling problem. Average signaling in Poland be like https://files.catbox.moe/ipl96o.png

I get your point, but historical centre of Warsaw is as much not average as it can be.

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#377

Post by wolrah »

quesera wrote: post #159
malfist wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fire trucks are very expensive to be playing bumper cars with

Modern fire trucks, and police cars usually, are built to be able to push vehicles out of the way. It's a very common need. (Not an argument against Waymo doing better in this situation though!)

> Modern fire trucks, and police cars usually, are built to be able to push vehicles out of the way.

Not so much police cars, anymore.

Back in the time of the B-Body Caprice and the Crown Vic, sure. These days with the exception of the Tahoe the most common police vehicles are all unibody platforms. Charger, Durango, Explorer, Taurus, and the rare Australian Caprice

You can still bolt a push bumper to them and most departments do, but they have to be used with a lot more caution and a lot less aggression to avoid damaging the vehicle than in the days of body-on-frame sedans.

Fire trucks on the other hand, yeah they're basically the opposite in that there might be a couple of Explorers or Durangos in the fleet but most everything else is a medium duty truck or a custom chassis specifically for fire service.

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#378

Post by rsynnott »

beAbU wrote: post #69
Zambyte wrote: post #11

We should put self driving cars on tracks so they are always out of the way and have easily predictable behavior. Maybe we can even link the cars together for efficiency or something like that.

You can further optimize the setup by not installing engines/motors in all of them. So maybe you have one car providing locomotion, with the rest following behind and designed for carrying.

That’s actually getting less common; pretty much all rapid transport and commuter trains are multiple units these days, as are an increasing number of intercity trains.

In Ireland, there are precisely two passenger routes still operated with locomotives, and there’s a tender offer out to replace one of them with a (really wacky; diesel, battery, _and_ overhead lines in two voltages!) multiple unit.

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#379

Post by rsynnott »

beAbU wrote: post #179
fragmede wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, the maintenance on those wires outside of the city means that you'd make electric trains with large batteries on them instead. https://evmagazine.com/articles/tesla-launches-first-all-ele...

I don't think I buy BEV trains to be honest. I'm struggling to think of a proper reason why they might be better compared to normal electric trains. But the linked article is pretty light on info, so I'll reserve judgement till more info comes to light.

The economics work out where they’re pretty low-frequency (I think less than two an hour per direction is the usual figure).

They’re also useful as a transition technology. The DART+ project in Ireland will use them for one line which will have the frequency for electrification (8 trains per direction per hour) and is already partially electrified, but is going to take a while to fully electrify (due to low bridges etc); once it’s electrified they’ll then likely be used in low-frequency regional routes.

(The realised project will use 750 uniform cars, about 200 of which will have batteries.)

Re: Waymo halts service during S.F. blackout after causing traffic jams

#380

Post by rsynnott »

namibj wrote: post #229
beAbU wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I buy BEV trains to be honest. I'm struggling to think of a proper reason why they might be better compared to normal electric trains. But the linked article is pretty light on info, so I'll reserve judgement till more info comes to light.

They are good for infrequently used track and places where overhead wires would be in the way, like that very Tesla employee shuttle on it's own track and container ports. It's not the best way to go for mainline track and not suitable for long distance high speed trains.

Ireland is going to use a particularly unusual one for the Dublin-Belfast intercity route. It will have batteries, _and_ diesel generators, _and_ will run off overhead lines, in two voltages. The context is that parts of the line will take a while to electrify; it will initially run on overhead, battery, and diesel, then just overhead and battery as the lines are built out, and then hopefully finally just overhead.
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