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BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

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Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#371

Post by marssaxman »

merger3 wrote: post #164
marssaxman wrote: post #15

> BMW has over-engineered the They have over-engineered the everything , because that is what BMW does. That is what they have been about for the last thirty years.

Exactly, these are intentional decisions for German cars. They’re gorgeous, over-engineered, cutting edge pieces of machinery and the expense of being practical or repairable. The common understanding for decades has been if you’re buying a German luxury car as a daily driver and repair costs are something you even have to consider, you’re buying the wrong car.

It was not always so. The E30 I used to drive - a 1986 model 325 - was a marvelous little thing, not only a joy to drive but a pleasure to work on. Its engineers had been just as thoughtful about its maintenance as its operation.

The car was 20 years old when I had it, but still ran like a top. I'm sure I'd have been driving it for many more years had my ex not run it into the back of a tow truck.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#372

Post by foxyv »

BobBagwill wrote: post #365

The goal is to eliminate outright vehicle sales, and move everyone to leases and rentals? Just like in software? Safety is important, too (nudge nudge wink wink). Given that speed and alcohol are the top two causes of traffic deaths, mandatory SAE J3016 Level 4 self-driving would prevent a lot of deaths. But of course, it will make the price of a "safe" automobile many times the annual income of 99% of North American…

I wouldn't mind if cars were so expensive only the top 2-5% of earners could afford them, but we need viable alternatives to driving. We have dismantled our transportation infrastructure at the pleasure of car companies. Now you have drivers that cannot afford their cars but must drive anyways. You also have people who are unfit to drive that are forced to do so.

Self-driving is a bandaid for a problem that is made by cars. It doesn't address the hundreds of other issues caused by them. Also it adds to the incremental squeezing of the middle class out of existence.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#373

Post by rconti »

radium3d wrote: post #75
rconti wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As they point out, the Tesla pyro fuse (at least on a Model S) is a cheap part. However, in some model years it's on top of the pack, which means you have to drop the pack to get to it. And, from memory, it's a 10 year lifespan part. However, on other Model S cars, it's easily accessible from the bottom. I wonder how we can make automakers make more repairable cars. Obviously, right-to-repair and allowing access to d…

The majority of their cars (Y/3 models) have the penthouse (top) of battery pack super easily accessible from under the back seat, no need to drop a pack. Not to mention Tesla has the best service mode system in their computer of any brand of all time. They also have the best free to owners assembly/disassembly manuals in the service portal https://service.tesla.com/ . They have taken self-service literally to the ne…

Thanks for the detail -- mine comment was just lazy, from memory, from a friend's car and videos I've seen online.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#374

Post by timbit42 »

jandrese wrote: post #141
hexo wrote: post #134

what is phev?

Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle. It's the most complex drivetrain you can possibly buy with a full gas engine and transmission mated to a full EV with external charging support.

I can't speak for other PHEV drivetrains but the Toyota PHEV design isn't that complex. It uses an ingenious planetary CVT with a small gas engine instead of a full gas engine and regular transmission.

Also, because the gas engine mostly runs at its most efficient RPM, there is little stress on it so it runs very reliably.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#375

Post by torginus »

jinzo wrote: post #334
torginus wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you and BMW are correct - if we take it for a fact that a simple fender-bender can make batteries develop life-threatening faults, which absolutely require a 4k euro inspection that involves complete disassembly and specialist equipment, then that means that EVs are unsuitable for public use. So either all EVs need to be scrapped forever, or BMW needs to engineer a more tractable solution to the problem, or BMW is…

No, from my experience, a simple fender-bender does not cause this.

In the article, it was mentioned that the issue can be caused by hitting the curb, there's a guy in the comments who says his VW grenaded itself this exact way just while charging (luckily his car was in warranty).

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#376

Post by jandrese »

jacquesm wrote: post #209
bluescrn wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people drive older cars worth less than £4000. Sticking to old/cheap cars seems like an increasingly good option with so many scare stories about the pain and extreme expense of getting modern cars, particularly EVs, repaired. And the impending ban on new ICE vehicles seems likely to lead to more older cars being kept on the road for a lot longer.

My current car is my last. It's a 1997 and it runs pretty much as good as new and I expect the thing to outlive me.

Depends on the parts situation. As someone who works on my own cars I've become increasingly distressed at the car parts industry. Even OEM parts, when they are still available, seem to have had a dramatic decrease in quality over the past couple of decades. This is even assuming the correct part is shipped in the first place, which is another problem that has become entirely too common, especially in an age where everything is computerized. So many times you get a box with the correct part number on the outside but the wrong part inside.

If you have the parts and the will it's possible to keep any car running close to forever. That said if you've gotten to the point where the frame is totally rusted out then maybe it's time to consider moving on.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#377

Post by harrall »

prepend wrote: post #336

It’s funny how I extrapolate car design sessions in my head based on software design sessions. I sold my bmw after 15 years of multiple bmws because their design is so poor for maintenance. I had cooling system problems that required hours of labor to get to just to replace a plastic part that cost $5 where an aluminum one would cost $7. It seems to me that bmw was designing for best case scenarios where everything g…

Ask a car guy and they’ll tell you that German car makers have been known to be be maintenance money sinks for 40 years.

But German car makers are really quick to add new technology. They were quick to add ABS, fuel injection, complex suspensions, etc.

But have you ever tried to make something you built to easy to maintain? You have to reroute everything, redesign your layout, add access ports, switch fittings… my god it can take almost as much time as building the thing to begin with. As an engineering requirement, it’s a high impact one.

(OK most people probably don’t build physical things they design much, but I’m sure some of you play Minecraft. Especially for those contraptions, do you add access corridors, extra access entrances, plan access into the construction? No, most people just make some tiny hole somewhere to get in. You’re just happy it works.)

And at the pace some car makers add new technology, I don’t think they budget the time to go back and do that. I think with the quick pace of EV technology as well, previously more maintenance friendly car makers are in the same boat.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#378

Post by Gravityloss »

prepend wrote: post #336

It’s funny how I extrapolate car design sessions in my head based on software design sessions. I sold my bmw after 15 years of multiple bmws because their design is so poor for maintenance. I had cooling system problems that required hours of labor to get to just to replace a plastic part that cost $5 where an aluminum one would cost $7. It seems to me that bmw was designing for best case scenarios where everything g…

Porsche had a research program about a very reliable car in the 70s. It has some odd technical choices from today's perspective. https://www.hagerty.com/media/automotive-history/when-porsch...

One would assume taxi companies etc would be willing to pay for cars that have high uptime and reliability. But I think they drive mostly the same stuff as regular people. At least one would assume they could get beefier suspension and transmission and high displacement downtuned engines.

In general new cars are still vastly better than old ones. 90:s cars rusted from everywhere after ~8 years while most cars nowadays have zinc coating and more plastic and are still mostly fine after 15 years.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#379

Post by Analemma_ »

jlarocco wrote: post #355
prepend wrote: post #336

It’s funny how I extrapolate car design sessions in my head based on software design sessions. I sold my bmw after 15 years of multiple bmws because their design is so poor for maintenance. I had cooling system problems that required hours of labor to get to just to replace a plastic part that cost $5 where an aluminum one would cost $7. It seems to me that bmw was designing for best case scenarios where everything g…

It's not just BMW, it's basically all car manufacturers. There are several car maintenance YouTubers who complain about it for many brands. For example "The Car Care Nut" complains about Toyotas being badly designed for maintenance, questionable material choices, etc.. The problem is that $2 here and there adds up, and at the level of the whole car it can add hundreds, or thousands of dollars of extra cost for reliab…

BMW has been the worst of the worst for a long time though. [0] is a representative example, but pretty much any "car brands ordered by upkeep cost" list will have BMW out on their own planet.

Before Teslas really took over the "high income tech worker" market, in Seattle you used to be able to get a used BMW for quite cheap, because all the Microsoft and Amazon workers would lease them and then they'd go on the used market when the lease was up. I actually considered doing this, but multiple mechanics said very bluntly, "don't, this is a trap, the maintenance costs will eat you alive".

[0]: https://www.crsautomotive.com/what-are-the-total-costs-of-ve...

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#380

Post by ptsneves »

entrox wrote: post #317
close04 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BMW refuses to provide training access for ISTA usage Refusing access to training isn't a BoM issue by any means. Neither is a repair process that's so error prone that it can do even more damage to the car. We are surrounded by evidence that manufacturers in every field are taking decisions that are hostile towards their customers in the chase for profits. With the rise of EVs with far fewer moving parts needing c…

I likely did not communicate clearly enough: it is tricky because of organizational reasons, not technical. There are many trade-offs that have to be made and it involves different business units with their own targets and incentives. To take a few examples from the article with likely causes (note I don't work for BMW, so this is pure speculation based on my own experience): > BMW has over-engineered the diagnostic…

Thanks for your comment. It looks to me that most of the people who work in engineering area express some form of understanding or give the benefit of the doubt to the situation while people from outside the field borderline call for malice in the side of BMW.

I think both are right. Engineering a modern car is really complex as you pointed out but the customer also has the right to say, "well that is what you are paid for". In the end the customer can just go to the next car brand.

I own a relatively recent BMW but it is only a mild hybrid diesel (4 year old M340D) and before I even received the car, they changed the whole engine and did not release the car until that was executed. That was done by the dealer, and i never knew what was the reason.

On the flip side of modern car engineering I once had a check engine light called the dealer and with authorization prompts on my side they were able to tell me some gas exhaust sensor was malfunctioning and I would be able to go there at my leisure, as it was not urgent. That was nice. When i bought the car I had 5 years of maintenance included and this is one of the nicest things about owning a car in modern times. They even call me when it is about time to do the maintenance asking for when I am available. I never owned top brand cars before but this is for me worth the premium so far as it is one less thing to organize.

Apart from the normal maintenance and the above I never had any issue with the car, and it is a very big difference between a 2001 Passat TDI(my youth car) or a Ford Torneo Connect(the car i am aiming to exchange for due to family reasons).

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