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RAM is so expensive, Samsung won't even sell it to Samsung

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Re: RAM is so expensive, Samsung won't even sell it to Samsung

#371
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yo, are you saying AI is not the epitome of bloat? Like, it's not a cancer of epic proportions. Very confused.. Wat?

LLMs use a lot of RAM as a fundamental part of their operation. The RAM is used to achieve the goal as efficiently as we know how. Even if you disagree with the goal needing to be achieved at all, the RAM usage is about as efficient as we can design. Regular modern applications use a lot of RAM as an incidental or accidental part of their operation. Even if you think the tasks that they're achieving are of extreme ne…

Chrome fundamentally uses ram ato avoid. What?

What a weird LLM apologetics.

Re: RAM is so expensive, Samsung won't even sell it to Samsung

#372
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, I bought one of those for $500 from Ebay. It's a dual Xeon Silver workstation with a Nvidia Quadro P400 8GB, 128GB RAM and 256G SSD. I threw in a 1TB SSD and it's been working pretty well.

What are the limitations of machines like these?

I bought a Dell Precision 7910 2x Xeon E5-2687W v3 (10 cores, 20 threads each) with 32GB RAM and 512GB SSD for $425 including shipping. I found that Windows 11 Pro will recognize only 20 of the virtual cores/threads. I don't feel a need to upgrade to more expensive Microsoft OSs at this time, so I just run Ubuntu natively on that box, which recognizes all of it. Assuming used DDR4 RAM returns to more reasonable prices at some point, I intend to load that box up to the 768GB max.

Re: RAM is so expensive, Samsung won't even sell it to Samsung

#373
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs use a lot of RAM as a fundamental part of their operation. The RAM is used to achieve the goal as efficiently as we know how. Even if you disagree with the goal needing to be achieved at all, the RAM usage is about as efficient as we can design. Regular modern applications use a lot of RAM as an incidental or accidental part of their operation. Even if you think the tasks that they're achieving are of extreme ne…

Chrome fundamentally uses ram ato avoid. What? What a weird LLM apologetics.

If you don’t think Chrome could be way more RAM efficient, and especially if you don’t think the things running inside Chrome could be more efficient, I have a bridge to sell you.

If you think acknowledging that fact (and the fact that there’s really not a great way to make LLMs more efficient) is “apologetics”, I cannot engage with you in good faith.

Re: RAM is so expensive, Samsung won't even sell it to Samsung

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For general computer usage, SSDs really were a once in a generation "holy shit, this upgrade makes a real difference" thing. I only ever noticed it on my windows partition. IIRC on my linux partition it was hardly noticeable because Linux is far better at caching disk contents than windows and also linux in general can boot surprisingly fast even on HDDs if you only install modules you actually need so that the auto…

How to determine which modules are actually needed, on a Debian system?

Set modules=dep in (https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/initramfs-tools/initramfs...) and run update-initramfs.

I doubt that'll affect boot time but it reduces initrd.img size a lot.

Re: RAM is so expensive, Samsung won't even sell it to Samsung

#375
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most tech jobs could be done on a $25 ten year old smartphone with a cracked screen and bulging battery. That’s exactly my point. Underspending on your tools is a misallocation of resources.

Overspending on your tools is a misallocation of resources. An annual $22k spend on computing is around 10-20x over spend for a wealthy individual. I'm in the $200-300k/year, self-employed, buys-my-own-shit camp, and I can't imagine spending 1% of my income on computing needs, let alone close to 10%. There is no way to make that make sense.

It’s not $22k/year, as the hardware still has great resale value when it’s replaced in 14-18 months.

It’s less than $8-10k/year when all is said and done.

I pay more for my car+insurance.

Re: RAM is so expensive, Samsung won't even sell it to Samsung

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's crazy spend for anyone making sub 100K

It is crazy for anyone making any amount. A $15k desktop is overkill for anything but the most demanding ML or 3D work loads, and the majority of the cost will be in GPUs or dedicated specialty hardware and software. A developer using even the clunkiest IDE (Visual Studio - I'm still a fan and daily user, it's just the "least efficient") can get away without a dedicated graphics card, and only 32GB of ram.

No, it’s just a maxed out mac studio with 512gb unified ram. Nothing dedicated or specialty.

Honestly a huge chunk of it is the Apple internal SSD tax but who wants to wait for usb3 external i/o?

Re: RAM is so expensive, Samsung won't even sell it to Samsung

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's crazy spend for anyone making sub 100K

thats a crazy spend for sub-200k or even sub-500k you're just building a gaming rig with a flimsy work-related justification.

I have a different computer for games and rarely have time to play them.

Re: RAM is so expensive, Samsung won't even sell it to Samsung

#378
post #75
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I crazy for thinking that anyone using computers for doing their job and making their income should have a $5k/year computer hardware budget at a minimum ? I’m not saying to do what I do and buy a $7k laptop and a $15k desktop every year but compared to revenue it seems silly to be worrying about a few thousand dollars per year delta. I buy the best phones and desktops money can buy, and upgrade them often, becaus…

What is the actual return on that investment, though? This is self indulgence justified as « investment ». I built a pretty beefy PC in 2020 and have made a couple of upgrades since (Ryzen 5950x, 64GB RAM, Radeon 6900XT, a few TB of NVMe) for like $2k all-in. Less than $40/month over that time. It was game changing upgrade from an aging laptop for my purposes of being able to run multiple VMs and a complex dev enviro…

The logistics of upgrading a Mac are:

1) rsync home directory over to new machine

2) generate new SE keys in secretive

3) push new authorized_keys out to all servers and test (scripted)

4) start using new machine

5) wipe old machine

It takes a few hours and most of it is waiting on 10GE rsync which only goes at like 3000Mbit and you can still use the source machine while it runs.

Re: RAM is so expensive, Samsung won't even sell it to Samsung

#379
post #25
post #18

I'm running a box I put together in 2014 with an i5-4460 (3.2ghz), 16 GB of RAM, GeForce 750ti, first gen SSD, ASRock H97M Pro4 motherboard with a reasonable PSU, case and a number of fans. All of that parted out at the time was $700. I've never been more fearful of components breaking than current day. With GPU and now memory prices being crazy, I hope I never have to upgrade. I don't know how but the box is still g…

Am I crazy for thinking that anyone using computers for doing their job and making their income should have a $5k/year computer hardware budget at a minimum ? I’m not saying to do what I do and buy a $7k laptop and a $15k desktop every year but compared to revenue it seems silly to be worrying about a few thousand dollars per year delta. I buy the best phones and desktops money can buy, and upgrade them often, becaus…

> Am I crazy for thinking that anyone using computers for doing their job and making their income should have a $5k/year computer hardware budget at a minimum?

Yes, you are crazy for saying that.

> but compared to revenue it seems silly to be worrying about a few thousand dollars per year delta.

There is a very wide range of incomes of people using their computers, and, more to the point, $5k/yr on hardware is way past the point where, for most people using their computer for income, additional hardware expenditure has any benefit to income generation.

> Even if you don’t go the overkill route like me, we’re talking about maybe $250/month to have an absolutely top spec machine which you can then use to go and earn 100x that.

Most people using their computer to earn income do not earn anywhere close to $25,000/mo ($300k/yr), and hardware expenditures aren't the limiting factor holding them back.

Also, the minimum of $5k/yr you suggested is not $250/mo, but more than 1.5× that at $417/mo.

> Spend at least 1% of your gross revenue on your tools used to make that revenue.

Median annual wage for a US software developer is ~$140k per most recent BLS numbers, and that's one of the higher-paying fields of work that people use computers for. Neither your original $5k per year nor even the $3k/year suggested by your later $250/mo suggestion are warranted by your 1% on tools rule for most people earning income with their computer, especially on hardware alone, as that is far from all of the "tools" that are relevant to most computer work.

Re: RAM is so expensive, Samsung won't even sell it to Samsung

#380
post #25
post #18

I'm running a box I put together in 2014 with an i5-4460 (3.2ghz), 16 GB of RAM, GeForce 750ti, first gen SSD, ASRock H97M Pro4 motherboard with a reasonable PSU, case and a number of fans. All of that parted out at the time was $700. I've never been more fearful of components breaking than current day. With GPU and now memory prices being crazy, I hope I never have to upgrade. I don't know how but the box is still g…

Am I crazy for thinking that anyone using computers for doing their job and making their income should have a $5k/year computer hardware budget at a minimum ? I’m not saying to do what I do and buy a $7k laptop and a $15k desktop every year but compared to revenue it seems silly to be worrying about a few thousand dollars per year delta. I buy the best phones and desktops money can buy, and upgrade them often, becaus…

Malagasy data annotators work for like $100 a month. You're pretty crazy to suggest that they should spend more on the hardware than they earn from it.
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