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Implications of AI to schools

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Re: Implications of AI to schools

#371

Post by gyulai »

iteria wrote: post #342
gyulai wrote: post #288

I was very much the kind of student who didn't perform well under exam-taking pressure. For marked work that I did outside of school, it was straight-As for me. For written exams performed under time pressure and oral examinations (administered without advance notice), it was very much hit-and-miss. If my son should grow up to run into the same kinds of cognitive limitations, I really don't know what I will tell him…

As a parent of a kid like this: start early with low stakes. You can increase your child's tolerance for pressure. I sometimes hear my kid saying sometimes after a deep breath, "There nothing to it, but to do it". And then work on focusing on what they did better versus how they did in absolute terms. I see collapsing under pressure to be either a kind of anxiety or a fixation on perfect outcomes. Teaching a toleranc…

Thanks!

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#372

Post by gspencley »

nephihaha wrote: post #244
ubj wrote: post #7

One of my students recently came to me with an interesting dilemma. His sister had written (without AI tools) an essay for another class, and her teacher told her that an "AI detection tool" had classified it as having been written by AI with "100% confidence". He was going to give her a zero on the assignment. Putting aside the ludicrous confidence score, the student's question was: how could his sister convince the…

I've had the same problem online for years, when I translate something people presume I am using Google Translate (even though in one case said language isn't on Google Translate — I checked!)... Or got the answer off Wikipedia. One of the funniest things was being accused of plagiarising Wikipedia, when I'd actually written most of the Wikipedia article on said subject. The irony... Wikipedia doesn't just use unpaid…

> when I'd actually written most of the Wikipedia article on said subject. The irony... Wikipedia doesn't just use unpaid labour, it ends up undermining the people who wrote it.

Surely it would be relatively easy to offer to show the edit history to prove that you actually contributed to the article? And, by doing so, would flip the situation in your favour by demonstrating your expertise?

The fact that you should have to is pretty annoying but also fairly edge case. And if a teacher or institute refuses to review that evidence then I don't think the credential on the table worth the paper it's printed on anyway.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#373

Post by schnable »

calgoo wrote: post #348
snickerbockers wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't understand why standardized testing gets so much pushback. Having the students do their work in a controlled environment is the obvious solution to AI and many other problems related to academic integrity. Its also the only way that students can actually be held to the same standards. When I was a freshman in college with a 3.4 highschool GPA, I was absolutely gobsmacked by how many kids with perfect >=…

Well, for one thing, people learn differently and comparing a "standard" test result just measures how much crap someone has been able to cram into their brain. I compare it to people memorizing trivia for Jeopardy. Instead what needs to be tested and taught is critical thinking. Yes a general idea of history and others is important, but again its teaching people to think about those subject, not just memorizing a bu…

It doesn't sound like you've ever taken a standardized test, that's not how they are structured at all.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#374

Post by ghaff »

fhgh2 wrote: post #265
ghaff wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even about plagiarism. But, sure, 1:1 or even 1:few instruction is great but even at elite schools is not really very practical. I went to what's considered a very good engineering school and classes with hundreds of students was pretty normal.

In some university systems it seems to be possible (I'm thinking of the khôlle system in France), so I don't see how the much better funded US system would not be able to do it.

Google tells me that is more of a system with preparatory schools in France. That said, there is more of an emphasis at some schools than others in individual interactions and seminars at the undergraduate collegiate level. I had some of that--just not mostly in engineering. In US elite schools, there's certainly time conflict for professors given research priorities.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#375

Post by JTon »

rdudek wrote: post #366
ubj wrote: post #7

One of my students recently came to me with an interesting dilemma. His sister had written (without AI tools) an essay for another class, and her teacher told her that an "AI detection tool" had classified it as having been written by AI with "100% confidence". He was going to give her a zero on the assignment. Putting aside the ludicrous confidence score, the student's question was: how could his sister convince the…

This stuff is getting more pervasive too. I'm working on my Master's degree right now and any code I submit, I make sure it has spelling mistakes and make it god awful because I don't want to get flagged by some 3rd party utility that checks if it was AI generated or copied from someone else.

Is this how you defeat AI detection? I.e. Generate a report, then manually introduce spelling and/or grammatical errors?

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#376

Post by graemep »

iteria wrote: post #340
graemep wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doing derivatives Not something everyone learns. My kids seemed to enjoy it. My older daughter learned quite a lot of algebra etc. by doing physics. > learning the periodic table You do not need to rote learn all of it, and you remember enough by learning about particular elements etc. > basic language and alphabet skills My kids learned to read through firstly reading with me (or others) so enjoying the story and…

This depends on the kid. I tried for literal years to get my kid to read. Nothing works. It doesn't matter what games I picked. What context she has to read, books, comics, video games, real life. It was not happening. You know what kick started my kid's ability to read? A reading teacher sitting with her every single day and teaching her explicitly the drudgery of what reading was. And then me doing the same at home…

Yes, of course there is individual variation, but there are usually ways around it. Not every single time, but usually.

> A reading teacher sitting with her every single day and teaching her explicitly the drudgery of what reading was

Individual attention makes a huge difference.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#377

Post by SoftTalker »

anthonypasq wrote: post #352
calgoo wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for one thing, people learn differently and comparing a "standard" test result just measures how much crap someone has been able to cram into their brain. I compare it to people memorizing trivia for Jeopardy. Instead what needs to be tested and taught is critical thinking. Yes a general idea of history and others is important, but again its teaching people to think about those subject, not just memorizing a bu…

you cannot possibly do any higher level of analysis of any subject if you dont even know the base facts. its the equivalent of saying you dont need to know your times tables to do physics. Like, theoretically its possible to look up 4x6 every time you need to do arithmetic but why would you not just memorize it. If you dont even know that the american civil war ended in 1865 how could you do any meaningful analysis o…

More important than knowing what 4x6 is, is understanding what multiplication is, why division is really the same operation, understanding commutative, associative, distributive properties of operations, etc. All of this comes as a result of repeated drilling of multiplication problem sets. Once this has been assimilated, you can move on to more abstract concepts that build on that foundation, and at that point sure you can use a calculator to work out the product of two integers as a convenience.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#378

Post by SoftTalker »

rrrobert wrote: post #267
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is one of the very few places I think big tech in the US has done a great job. Coding interviews can be justifiably critiqued in many ways, but it's still a much better system than raw credentialization. Just so we're clear, the coding tests are in addition to credentialisation. I'll never forget when I worked at Big Tech (from Ireland) and I would constantly hear recruiters talk about the OK school list (basi…

My experience with big tech has been the polar opposite - nobody has ever cared and I've never tried to hide it either. Which one was it if you don't mind me asking? I'm a drop out (didn't finish BSc) from a no name Northern European university and I've worked at or gotten offers from: - Meta - Amazon - Google - Microsoft - Uber - xAI + some unicorns that compete with FAANG+ locally. I didn't include some others that…

Once you have a relevant work history, a degree matters much less. It still does to some employers, however, for whom it's a simple filter on applicants: No degree? Resume into the bin.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#379

Post by ako »

ubj wrote: post #7

One of my students recently came to me with an interesting dilemma. His sister had written (without AI tools) an essay for another class, and her teacher told her that an "AI detection tool" had classified it as having been written by AI with "100% confidence". He was going to give her a zero on the assignment. Putting aside the ludicrous confidence score, the student's question was: how could his sister convince the…

My son recently told me his teacher used him as an example for the class as someone who wrote a good piece himself. Teacher accused all the other students of using AI.

He also told me that he had in fact used AI, but asked AI multiple times to simplify the text, and he had entered the simplified version. He liked the first version best, but was aware his teacher would consider it written by AI.

Guess the teachers have already lost...

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#380

Post by contrast »

SoftTalker wrote: post #377
anthonypasq wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you cannot possibly do any higher level of analysis of any subject if you dont even know the base facts. its the equivalent of saying you dont need to know your times tables to do physics. Like, theoretically its possible to look up 4x6 every time you need to do arithmetic but why would you not just memorize it. If you dont even know that the american civil war ended in 1865 how could you do any meaningful analysis o…

More important than knowing what 4x6 is, is understanding what multiplication is, why division is really the same operation, understanding commutative, associative, distributive properties of operations, etc. All of this comes as a result of repeated drilling of multiplication problem sets. Once this has been assimilated, you can move on to more abstract concepts that build on that foundation, and at that point sure…

How is knowing the commutative properties of operations more significant than being able to do basic arithmetic?

I'd imagine millions if not billions of people have found basic math useful without ever learning what "commutative" even means.

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