Live data from Hacker News

The privacy nightmare of browser fingerprinting

kevinboone.me

371–380 of 456 posts

Re: The privacy nightmare of browser fingerprinting

#371
Something missed in the continual tracking/privacy discussion is the primary motivations for doing so, with the assumption that it's about advertisers trying to sell you more stuff.

I'm 100% in the need for personal privacy camp, but mention this only because without addressing the underlying issues, it's hard to come up with larger solutions.

And the big issues really come down to fraud and cyber attacks:

- Years ago, the NYTimes was found to be doing some kind of homegrown fingerprinting with canvas. They have plenty of ways of doing analytics and tracking subscribers, they were trying to root out ad fraud.

- When Spotify has people every day putting up AI-generated streams and attempting to "listen" to them with bot networks, they start to look at things like fingerprinting.

- Massive credential stuffing attacks on sites are often thwarted at the technical level by fingerprinting.

- Bot traffic (and in particular AI indexing bots not respecting robots.txt) has shot up dramatically in the last year, and fingerprinting is one of the strongest ways of bot identification.

Again, want the personal privacy, but think we need to fix the professional problems to get there.

Re: The privacy nightmare of browser fingerprinting

#372
post #248

On articles like this always I see a lot of people bragging about how they’ve pimped out their browser(s) to make themselves “untrackable” (or proposals to make new ways of tracking impossible) but nobody ever brags about how lack of “tracking” has positively impacted their lives. I do block ads on the web with UBlock Origin because there’s no pay option to opt-out of it and ads ruin the experience. But I don’t give…

This tracking absolutely has impacted the average person. Have you noticed how addictive the social media algorithms are today? Pretty much everyone I know struggles to get off their recommended or "for you" tab at this point. It literally is rooted in tracking how long you spend on each piece of media, rewarding and delaying that reward based on what will hook you the most. If you start disabling tracking and anonymizing your browser, it suddenly all becomes really clear how unnecessary the content really is...

Re: The privacy nightmare of browser fingerprinting

#373
post #119
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Print media did also include e.g. coupons with discount codes with which advertisers could learn which lead led through a sale.

Without any transactions or user tracking it’s difficult to separate ‘legitimate’ content farms from those using bot farms to boost their page views. Print media was also trying to guarantee their audience was an actual person by charging nominal fees, the difference was how much info required to do so.

Yep, exactly. So ideally, we'd have some technology that would be able to achieve those goals without needing all the info that is gathered nowadays. Though that is pretty unpopular here too.

Re: The privacy nightmare of browser fingerprinting

#374
I am planning to write my MSc thesis about the currently broad topic "Future of Open Web. Since I work at a contextual targeting company, I have also aggregated data about traffic to some news sites & contacts in the industry for interviews.

Any particularly interesting angles to this that you wished there was research on?

Re: The privacy nightmare of browser fingerprinting

#375
post #348

The OP argues that fingerprinting is a "privacy nightmare," but we need to look at why it exists. From a pragmatic perspective, we are forcing two very different networks to run on the same protocols: The Business Internet: Banking, SaaS, and VC-funded content (Meta/Google). The Fun Internet: Hobby blogs, Lego fan sites, and the "GeoCities" spirit. You cannot have a functioning "Business Internet" without identity ve…

Note that one very simple mitigation for browser fingerprinting is to simply run different browsers for "the business Internet" and "the fun Internet". You may need to do this anyway, because so many business sites only work on Chrome, with Javascript enabled, no VPN, no adblocker, and pop-ups enabled. But then you might use Chrome (which tracks everything you do anyway) for all your banking, SaaS, government tasks, so they all work, and then say Brave or Opera in an incognito window for all your fun reading. You get the adblocker, you get a different cookie jar for each session, you get easy access to Tor to hide your IP, etc.

Also recommended to have a separate sandbox for "projects" - basically things that you do that each might require their own research, toolchain, files you create, etc. I'd highly recommend doing this in a virtual machine though - oftentimes you need to install apps to do your project work, and that presents its own attack vector. Plus if it's all in a VM you can just backup the VM and start fresh on new hardware without having to install all the dependencies, while if you're just saving random files and backing them up they probably won't work as software gets updated and dependencies get out-of-date.

Re: The privacy nightmare of browser fingerprinting

#376
I don't agree the search for a technical solution. Fingerprinting is not useful for the small personal website, and when it's useful and abused, there's a 99% chance that there's a network behind. You can audit and control the networks using the law. Why not do that?

It's been obvious for a decade and a half that technical solutions won't be practical to implement.

Re: The privacy nightmare of browser fingerprinting

#377
there are a few more angles to this.

Firstly, on the counter argument side, when you visit a website, you are using their hardware, they have every right to make any requirements they want to use their hardware, they are not public spaces.

But more importantly, the fix is actually easy, use more than one browser, use private browsing sessions, use more than one device, only log in to services you dont mind tracking you, use ad blocking. everywhere. Dont use sites that dont behave. All things you should be doing anyway.

However, I also think the whole concept of browser fingerprinting is exaggerated. None of the things that can be used for fingerprinting are long lived, meaning any fingerprint probably has a shorter life span than the average cookie, and also far less reliable than say an IP address, which absolutely doesnt personally identify you.

meanwhile, it is quite rediculous to log in to all these services with 2FA, then expect any kind of technical or legal measure to prevent them from knowing exactly who you are with 100% accuracy.

Mostly thinking out loud, truly anonymous browsing is a tor node away, but a long time since I used that, there wasn't anything there I was interested in after intel exchange went down.

Re: The privacy nightmare of browser fingerprinting

#378
post #229

What I don't get, all this data is reported by your machine - why isn't there a tool/browser fork that allows spoofing a (fairly) complete realistic profile, with some sane presets like Edge/W11/Thinkpad or Safari/macOS/M4? Is it too complex, would it break too much, or am I just unaware?

Most privacy-thumping browsers do this, to some degree, but it’s not a panacea. The article gets into it.

The article mentions some complications and browsers like LibreWolf that address some of them. But that's not really what I have in mind - I'm thinking more of a dashboard with editable fields for everything that might get queried, populated with what currently gets sent, and a drop-down that lets you select among preset/saved custom profiles.

Re: The privacy nightmare of browser fingerprinting

#379
post #222
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

uBlock origin just got replaced with uBlock lite for most people

There's a way to enforce loading UBo in Chromium but you need to download the extension by hand (git clone it from GitHub) and load it in "developer mode" in the extension settings. Also, you need to enable some legacy options related to extensions in about:flags.

Which really puts a massive spotlight on you.

Re: The privacy nightmare of browser fingerprinting

#380
post #229

What I don't get, all this data is reported by your machine - why isn't there a tool/browser fork that allows spoofing a (fairly) complete realistic profile, with some sane presets like Edge/W11/Thinkpad or Safari/macOS/M4? Is it too complex, would it break too much, or am I just unaware?

There are browsers that people use for multi accounting that switch fingerprints for you. See octobrowser and other similar ones. They're generally paid products and need to work in conjunction with proxies
Post reply on HN