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My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

sashachapin.substack.com

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Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#371

Post by whstl »

coldtea wrote: post #352
whstl wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people who judge others like this are anti-social assholes. Of course that's not as bad as people who try to rationalize bad behavior behind a veil of pseudo-intellectuality. Once again: rationalizations don't make something true.

> Yes, people who judge others like this are anti-social assholes On the contrary, since many (if not most) people do it, they're on the social side. > Once again: rationalizations don't make something true When it comes to social truths, what most people do make them so. If most people think X bad, X is bad is a social truth. Doens't matter if you think X is "not bad in reality". Reality doesn't care about good or b…

Nope. Actions that harm social bonds, judging that shames, excludes, or hurts is antisocial even if many people do it.

Also this post has the classic logical error of assuming that because something is a certain way, it should be that way.

> Reality doesn't care about good or bad

Likewise: What you call "social truths" are real in that they shape behavior and consequences, but they’re conventions, not objective moral facts, and they can be unjust or oppressive.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#372

Post by whstl »

coldtea wrote: post #350
whstl wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was about signal-to-noise, there would be no bullying of bald people, or short people.

Or it could still be, but have other explanation. E.g. you're called out if you ruin the signal to noise ration, but you're also called out if you genuinely give the unfit signal. (Don't approve doing this or anything, just pointing the blind spot in your dichotomy, interested in the argument on a purely technical manner).

HN never ceases to surprise me with the rationalizations for any kind of behavior.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#374

Post by whstl »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #367
whstl wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the problem is not admiring good looks if they're natural, or expecting someone to be truthful, or anything of the sort that might or might not theoretically happen. The problem is clearly with the bullying. And the assumptions around character. And basically using "changing yourself" as a proxy for hallucinating all sorts of completely unrelated bad characteristics. And the rationalizing around it. It's the same…

Someone having one consciously developed ulterior motive… does increases the likelihood of them having other consciously developed ulterior motives that might be hidden away? The linkage isn’t as strong for unconsciously or subconsciously developed ulterior motives. Hence the huge gap in how people behave towards that.

Calling it "ulterior motive" is already a judgement call.

Being better at socialization is virtually demanded by society. "Not looking good" is also punished. There is nothing ulterior about anything.

The fact that a certain chunk of society demands both perfection and authenticity already makes it necessary for people to not be transparent about such things.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#375

Post by [deleted] »

coldtea wrote: post #348
YurgenJurgensen wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say ‘somehow’ like the reasoning isn’t obvious. Physical attractiveness is a signal of reproductive fitness when it’s genetic, and not otherwise.

The reductionist biological explanation might be obvious to you, but in the actual world, the reasoning and the moral condemnation of things like plastic surgery is never explicitly about giving false signals regarding one's reproductive fitness. Reasons "haters" cite are about vanity, narcissism, refusing to look your age, etc.

[deleted]

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#376

Post by hypeatei »

Thossndjsj wrote: post #134
SirMaster wrote: post #27

Why do we need to be normal anyway? Why can't we just be unique?

Most people from what I've seen don't want unique as much as they want somewhat famailiar. If it deviates too far away from that then they are repulsed, and I can give you an example right here. I'm going to commit suicide. I've known this for the last 15 years. It'll probably be another 10 years before I'll die, but I know my end is half laying down with a 1.5 inch nylon strap tied cinched on my neck and a tree trun…

FWIW, I have the same mindset and your comment resonated with me; suicide is a very taboo subject still. The responses to it are either: you need to seek help for mental illness or you're just acting like an edgy teenager.

The term "mental health" is quite terrible because what are we using as a baseline for "healthy" when we throw that term around? No one can answer that. I don't think everyone using that term is being malicious but they don't realize how patronizing it is.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#377

Post by blueflow »

fruitworks wrote: post #326
Hendrikto wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing the hand you were dealt is fine. Pulling an ace out of your sleeve is cheating.

Cheating in whose game? We make our own luck.

You might not play it, but others do play the game and take it rather seriously.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#378

Post by coldtea »

whstl wrote: post #371
coldtea wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, people who judge others like this are anti-social assholes On the contrary, since many (if not most) people do it, they're on the social side. > Once again: rationalizations don't make something true When it comes to social truths, what most people do make them so. If most people think X bad, X is bad is a social truth. Doens't matter if you think X is "not bad in reality". Reality doesn't care about good or b…

Nope. Actions that harm social bonds, judging that shames, excludes, or hurts is antisocial even if many people do it. Also this post has the classic logical error of assuming that because something is a certain way, it should be that way. > Reality doesn't care about good or bad Likewise: What you call "social truths" are real in that they shape behavior and consequences, but they’re conventions, not objective moral…

>judging that shames, excludes, or hurts is antisocial even if many people do it.

That's a modern dellusion.

Sociology (and common wisdom) tells us that judgment "that shames, excludes, or hurts" is necessary for the development of morality, social cohesion, and cooperation.

Note: not any random judgment "that shames, excludes, or hurts" has this possitive role, but plenty of judgements that "shame, exclude, or hurt", meaning that judgement that "shames, excludes, or hurts" is a useful social tool.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#379

Post by coldtea »

whstl wrote: post #372
coldtea wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it could still be, but have other explanation. E.g. you're called out if you ruin the signal to noise ration, but you're also called out if you genuinely give the unfit signal. (Don't approve doing this or anything, just pointing the blind spot in your dichotomy, interested in the argument on a purely technical manner).

HN never ceases to surprise me with the rationalizations for any kind of behavior.

You keep using this word rationalization. I don't think it means what you think it means

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#380

Post by whstl »

coldtea wrote: post #378
whstl wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Actions that harm social bonds, judging that shames, excludes, or hurts is antisocial even if many people do it. Also this post has the classic logical error of assuming that because something is a certain way, it should be that way. > Reality doesn't care about good or bad Likewise: What you call "social truths" are real in that they shape behavior and consequences, but they’re conventions, not objective moral…

> judging that shames, excludes, or hurts is antisocial even if many people do it. That's a modern dellusion. Sociology (and common wisdom) tells us that judgment "that shames, excludes, or hurts" is necessary for the development of morality, social cohesion, and cooperation. Note: not any random judgment "that shames, excludes, or hurts" has this possitive role, but plenty of judgements that "shame, exclude, or hurt…

And there is nothing positive or productive about the kind of judgement I'm talking about.
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