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My Impressions of the MacBook Pro M4

michael.stapelberg.ch

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Re: My Impressions of the MacBook Pro M4

#371

Post by RulerOf »

wtallis wrote: post #196
ricardobeat wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normal content is still limited to 500 nits, and these being mini-LED displays, contrast is already infinite. Unless you’re making Instagram content, very few photographers use HDR. Everything else will look the same on both screens.

> and these being mini-LED displays, contrast is already infinite. I think you may have mixed up mini-LED backlighting with OLED and microLED displays. mini-LED backlights merely allow for better local dimming of the backlight behind an LCD, but the number of independently variable backlight zones is still orders of magnitude smaller than the number of pixels. Over short distances, an LCD with local dimming is still…

> but the number of independently variable backlight zones is still orders of magnitude smaller than the number of pixels

The appearance of a lone mouse cursor on a black screen in the dark is mildly amusing for exactly this reason. You can watch as the ghostly halo of light follows it around the screen as you move the cursor.

I'll upgrade my machine when they put an OLED display in it.

Re: My Impressions of the MacBook Pro M4

#372

Post by nwienert »

deaddodo wrote: post #203
nwienert wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s multiple free versions and forcing HDR on isn’t a basic feature by any means.

And yet, it's a simple toggle (sometimes multiple, for specific display flows) in GNOME, KDE, and Windows 10+.

A far as I understand Windows only has a toggle for HDR on vs off, that's not what we're talking about here, this is about forcing the full brightness of HDR always, even outside videos. It's something that manufacturers don't allow for as it reduces display life, it would actually be an anti-feature for a consumer OS to expose as a setting. It'd be like exposing some sort of setting to allow your CPU to go well beyond normal heat limits.

Re: My Impressions of the MacBook Pro M4

#373

Post by hu3 »

prmoustache wrote: post #370
hu3 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I currently have a 160hz and a 240hz monitor. And I can tell the difference between them when scrolling pages with tons of text. There's less ghosting in 240hz. And scrolling on 60hz to me looks blurry. I'd like to think that those who don't notice the difference have improved brain GPUs that can compensate for ghosting.

How can you know it is not bias? For what its worth you might have never noticed any difference if you didn't knew they weren't refreshing at the same frequency.

Oh for me it's very clear.

Specially between 60hz and 120+.

Scrolling looks blurry/ghosted in 60hz.

I guess I could vibe code an app to set monitor Hz randomly in either 60 or 280 and test.

But it would be a waste of time from how clearly I can tell the difference.

Re: My Impressions of the MacBook Pro M4

#374

Post by _yb2s »

prmoustache wrote: post #369
_yb2s wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a doable common hobby for middle class Americans. I grew up in a rural area with a dirt airstrip and everyone owned planes- even people that could barely afford a reliable used car. You can sometimes find something like an old Cessna for about $20k, and if you’re willing to do “experimental” planes that you fix yourself, sometimes just a few $k. Like anything, if you’re an insider in the community you can get go…

> even people that could barely afford a reliable used car. You can sometimes find something like an old Cessna for about $20k, Not sure what you call a "reliable used car". My low mileage for its age 2006 Mercedes B200 costed me 5.5k€ for instance. A car doesn't have to cost a lot to be reliable. Around me $20k is an expensive price for a car and most people buy second hand +20y old cars they buy for less than 5k€.

Cultural attitudes about that vary a lot by locale I think. That is not how most American consumers think, at least where I live… people largely consider older cars, especially German ones to be too unreliable to count on and they are (wrongly) believed to be so expensive to maintain that it will cost more than a new car- so they're categorically ruled out. Even people that can barely afford food or housing will often take out a loan for a new or nearly new car under the idea that they won’t get to work consistently otherwise.

I am also into older cars and can get a reliable car for a few hundred dollars, but I would never be able to convince anyone else I know that it is an option. So yea, you can get a reliable car for a lot less than a cheap airplane only if you don’t have some irrational bias against older cars.

Re: My Impressions of the MacBook Pro M4

#375

Post by DANmode »

asdff wrote: post #102
daymanstep wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

120Hz is absolutely a noticeable improvement over 60Hz. I have a 60Hz iPhone and a 120Hz iPhone and the 60Hz one is just annoying to use. Everything feels so choppy.

I can't tell at all when my mbp is in 120hz or 60hz. I tried to set up a good test too by scrolling really fast while plugging and unplugging the power adapter (which kicks it into high power 120hz or low power 60hz).

Display quality should be measured in eye-strain and fatigue after your intended workload.

Re: My Impressions of the MacBook Pro M4

#376

Post by DANmode »

rkomorn wrote: post #253
PhilipRoman wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe refresh rate/FPS is one of those things where it doesn't really matter but human eyes get spoiled by the higher standard, making it hard to go back. I never saw issues with 30 FPS until going to 60, etc. Hopefully I never get a glimpse of 120 or 144Hz, which would require me to throw out all existing devices.

Best take in this thread. The jump forward doesn't even necessarily feel that huge but the step backward is (annoyingly) noticeable.

Quality of life adjustments are all like this.

Especially wellness.

Re: My Impressions of the MacBook Pro M4

#377

Post by DANmode »

cycomanic wrote: post #194
LeoPanthera wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, traditional matte screen finishes exhibited poor optical qualities by scattering ambient light, which tended to wash out colors. This scattering process also affected the light from individual pixels, causing it to refract into neighboring pixels. This reduced overall image quality and caused pixel-fine details, such as small text, to appear smeary on high-density LCDs. In contrast, well-designed glossy…

If all that is true, why do professional photography monitors pretty much exclusively have matte finishes. Same for monitor used by video, CAD or 3d professionals. You guys need to stop reading apple advertisement material and take it for gospel just because it has some fancy scientific words in it.

Color distortion and/or glare not worth marginal gains that cheap displays rely on the gloss for.

Re: My Impressions of the MacBook Pro M4

#378

Post by tjr »

eastbound wrote: post #242
Onavo wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try general aviation as a hobby. It will be eye opening

Thinking it’s a hobby is an american thing. I’ve never met anyone who do it, but for Kobe Bryant, Harrisson Ford, Tom Cruise it seems normal. Most people save $400 per month tops, that they spend on holidays.

A lot of people fly. It's pretty common to be a fractional owner in a relatively inexpensive airplane and use it one day a week or some such.

Re: My Impressions of the MacBook Pro M4

#379

Post by adastra22 »

rogerrogerr wrote: post #365
adastra22 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your body & nervous system processing has input lags on the order of 100ms and variance on the order of 10’s of ms though.

But your eyes can track a moving object (like a car, or a ball, or a cursor or text on a scrolling webpage); they don’t stay 100ms behind it.

That is predictive motion isn't the same thing.

Re: My Impressions of the MacBook Pro M4

#380

Post by snoman »

yayitswei wrote: post #335
brulard wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can not think of many hobbies which are less expensive if you are serious about them. Some hobbies around me, where $3000 wouldn't get you far: Motorcycles, cars, cycling, collecting anything, woodworking, machining, music making, traveling, horses,...

Some of those, like horses, are 1% hobbies. But many of the others can be done very affordably. Buying used equipment, learning from YouTube and online resources, starting small and scaling gradually make most of those hobbies accessible at a fraction of the cost.

You could say the same about computing as a hobby. Maybe that’s your point, hard for me to tell. I always compare it as a hobby to golf or hockey- both of which are common where I come from and pretty pricey hobbies.
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