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MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

github.com

371–380 of 585 posts

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#371
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you always published and built Docker images for the public you are creating an expectation, people will rely on that and will chose your software based on that expectation. You suddenly deciding that you won't be offering updated Docker images especially after a CVE and with no prior notice (except a hidden commit 4 days ago that updated the README) is approaching malicious-level actions. If they truly cared ab…

This only inconveniences open source freeloaders. Maybe you can volunteer some time to build Docker images?

It also inconveniences people who aren't freeloaders - or are you forgetting about the community?

People submitting PRs aren't freeloaders: they are building the product for you. People filing bug reports aren't freeloaders: they are helping you solve the bugs in your code. People writing blog posts about setting up MinIO aren't freeloaders: they are writing documentation for you. People holding talks about it at conferences aren't freeloaders: they are essentially doing free marketing for you. Even someone leaving a "thumbs up" on a Github issue isn't a freeloader anymore!

MinIO is also screwing over those active contributors, who are volunteering their time to improve the value of MinIO's product. That's not just "no longer helping freeloaders", that is "actively hurting the community".

Besides, I'm sure the community has plenty of people who would be more than happy to volunteer time to build Docker images. Do you really think MinIO is going to let them publish it under the official "minio/minio" name so the community can still benefit from it without MinIO having to "support freeloaders", or do you think there could be an ulterior motive behind nuking the image - such as pushing people to the paid version?

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I worked in customer service. There was this guy who came in to to motivate us. He talked about the work of someone named Bob Farrell who had a chain of ice cream shops and sold burgers. He had received a letter from a disappointed customer. The customer had been given the extra pickles on his burgers for years and now one of Bob's employees told him he now had to pay extra for it. The customer said he'd ne…

> Minio doesn't have to give non-paying users anything, but the story still applies. How on earth does it apply when your complete example story relies on the satisfaction of the paying customers. If you're not paying, you're not a customer - you're a user.

> If you're not paying, you're not a customer - you're a user.

This doesn't work with open-source projects: someone can still provide a lot of value to you without explicitly paying for it. If a community member volunteers a lot of their time to contribute code or provide support to other users, then you probably shouldn't piss them off either.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#373
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a strange mindset, IMO. I'd be pissed if I had to pay $0.10 every time I turned a rachet, and it's weird to expect companies to have usage-based monetization on the tools they've made for others.

An analogy to making a physical tool doesn’t really work because we have to basically describe what software is in terms of exceptions to the analogy. If I had a ratchet that, every time I turned it, I had to pay $.1, but I’d gotten it for free, but it was basically free to replicate, but the person who designed it did have to spend some significant work on R&D for the thing… I have no idea how I’d price that or how…

oh you really butchered that metaphor.

The ratchet isn't what's getting paid in the metaphor, it's the person turning it.

There's always a time-sink cost to a public project.

Anyway, there's definitely a public good argument to turn certain software projects into utilities.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#374
post #7

Keep in mind this is the same project that removed all useful functionality from the included web UI in the community edition with the excuse that it was too much effort to maintain. This is another case of VC-funded companies pulling up the ladder behind themselves.

What ladder are they pulling up? Feel free to fork the last valid commit and make a competitor.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#375
post #354
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have also removed the web UI and stopped updating the documentation for the community edition. The former is not extremely serious as the community can easily replace it. The latter is arguably the worst among all the changes that we know of. While they do redirect community documentation towards its enterprise counterpart, it's becoming clear that the differences in the community edition won't be addressed at a…

Right -- I think it's quite clear that if you're relying on the free minio you need to look elsewhere or peer up with some others and fork it. And any adoption of a critical piece of software needs to have a risk calculus associated with it of "what if they get bought by CA, invaded by Russia and murdered, murder their wife and go to jail, or dedicate their remaining time on earth to writing haiku?" Both open source…

> I'd argue that you're actually safer with open source software since you can pick up and keep running it, but that's not a trivial undertaking.

I agree with that. It's just that I find it very annoying that these companies turn against the OSS (user) community after they've gained enough market share by taking advantage of the community's trust and network. This discussion thread itself is full of people calling the users 'entitled'. That's some level of gaslighting! The real question is, how much would these projects have succeeded if they had started under the same terms as the ones they've now switched to? If the answer is 'not very much', then that means the community added significant value to the product, which these companies are now refusing to share and running away with. These companies are the entitled ones, besides being deceptive and dishonest.

The case with MinIO is not as egregious as the others we have seen - elastic, for example. MinIO is still under an open source license. But their decisions to let the community edition documentation rot and to remove the web ui make it very clear that they're trying to make the community edition as unviable as possible without having to take the heat for going all out proprietary or source available. Does this tactic seem familiar? This exactly what Google does with AOSP. Slowly remove and replace its OSS parts with proprietary software and gradually kill the project. Again, it's deceptive, dishonest and distasteful.

Both free software and open source software have a tradition of not excluding anybody from participating in the process, community and contributions. But looking at how much certain companies damage the trust and fracture the community for some extra profit, it might be a good idea to start asking if they should even be given the opportunity to do so.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#376
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were giving it away for free and paying a non-zero cost to do it, that's not sustainable. And that clearly isn't taking all the benefit for themselves. This is a take so bad, it isn't a take anymore...its a personality flaw.

Literally nobody is making that claim. Nobody expects businesses to be charities. The thing being argued against is businesses solely being viewed as a "get rich quick" gambling scheme, where the only thing that matters is a rapid rise in shareholder value. VCs don't want a company providing a steady retirement fund, they want you to go for a 1000x return or die trying. The logical end result is that you screw over y…

Thank you.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it used to be that people started businesses so that they could help others by providing a product or a service to them. late stage capitalism arrives when people create businesses solely to get rich, and when other companies are created solely to get rich by helping those people create their companies so that they can get rich. that's what ycombinator is. most of capitalism used to be symbiotic. engaging in transact…

I think very few businesses were created just to help people. Maybe some nonprofits. Lots of good businesses were created to just make their owners a reasonable income, I mean, most people will take “be rich” if that’s an option but have reasonable expectations. The problem with heavily invested in companies is occurs when they skip the stage of being a small profitable business with an actual business model.

I think even 50 years ago, that most people started businesses because they had a skill and could use it to help others meet their needs.

HP started (more than 50 years ago) with two friends who wanted to make better electronic test equipment. Profit was not forefront in their mind like it is to an MBA graduate today. Hewlett and Packard wanted to provide quality test equipment to people, because a lot of the test equipment of the day was subpar to them.

By the time the 80s rolled around, they paid 100% of an employee's college education (no matter how high they wanted to go with that) and paid them 75% of their salary while they were away at school. College was cheaper then, but zero employers today would even briefly consider paying people any amount at all to not be at work while also paying for the thing keeping them away from work.

corner stores in crowded neighborhoods are not started to maximize profit potential for shareholders. corner stores are started because someone saw the need for a corner store and wanted to make a living running it; they wanted that to be their job.

Until the invention of the MBA I don't think most people who started businesses did so purely for money. There are many easier ways to make money. Today people can start shitting mobile games with pay to win mechanics and they will be rich when the first one takes off. No one creates mobile games with pay to win mechanics because they want people to experience the joy of microtransactions.

Every business today (certainly every tech business) is designed to find out what people want via market research, pick the thing that looks the most profitable, then through a very well developed process, turn that business into a source of retirement money for the founder(s) and a source of return for the investors. It is literally a photocopy model of business creation. "Follow the process and you will succeed."

No one is opening shops today to help their neighbor. No one is opening new bakeries because their town needs one. No one is doing anything that one used to see people doing everywhere they went. Profit-driven motivation ruins everything it touches. Everything.

Everything is profit driven, now. Everything. The MBA is the most disasterous degree ever devised. It makes people think that starting a business purely to make money is a perfectly normal and healthy thing to do, and it simply isn't.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it used to be that people started businesses so that they could help others by providing a product or a service to them. late stage capitalism arrives when people create businesses solely to get rich, and when other companies are created solely to get rich by helping those people create their companies so that they can get rich. that's what ycombinator is. most of capitalism used to be symbiotic. engaging in transact…

If they were giving it away for free and paying a non-zero cost to do it, that's not sustainable. And that clearly isn't taking all the benefit for themselves. This is a take so bad, it isn't a take anymore...its a personality flaw.

Your understanding of what I said is the bad take, here.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#379
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could you elaborate on this? we're looking at moving off cloudflare r2 in the somewhat near future and garage is on our short-list

Garage worked for most of my use-cases but it lacks, among other endpoints[0], bucket ACLs and bucket replication. Anonymous access is also an open issue[1]. They are also a comparatively young project and while fully OSS do not, afaik, appear to have a solid long term funding source yet. Though that might be an opportunity to support them, if your company is interested in picking them. [0]: https://garagehq.deuxfleu…

We are also looking into Garage, does it support 206 partial content seeking on the files in the bucket via it's http interface?

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good discounts start around 100x your spend.

If you are comfortable with making a commit 1-3 year commit - you can get 27-50% discounts at pretty much any spend I think. https://aws.amazon.com/savingsplans/compute-pricing/

Right, but depending on your workload, compute might just be 1/3 to 1/2 of your spend. The remainder going on storage, networking (egress and internal between regions & AZs), LBs, and higher abstraction services (from queues to search to serverless).

Feels great to talk about 27-50% but turns out it's 9%-16% when all is said and done. You can get commitment savings on other services but you need higher spend.

Feels odd that big cloud gives better discounts to enterprise. They really don't cater to startups as much as they posture.

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