Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

grist.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 651 posts

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#371

Post by jopsen »

weinzierl wrote: post #335
cjpearson wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big factor in the quick return (and maybe one reason for its popularity) is that Germany has some of the most expensive electricity in the world. The ROI doesn't look as attractive in France, the US or Norway.

And it barely works out in Germany. I did the math for my small city flat with a small south facing balcony and got a realistic payback period of 6 years. The issue is not solar per se, but that tiny installations are not very efficient. It'd make much more sense to bolster funding for building sized installations.

A building sized thing has much higher installation costs. And you can't DIY it, it's not just plug and play.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#373

Post by Timon3 »

adrianN wrote: post #367
tirant wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Phase out of nuclear was agreed upon after Fukushima, long before Habeck had anything to say.

And just to be explicit, because I see people lie about this very often: this decision was made by the conservative party (CDU) while the Greens were not part of the government.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#374

Post by GordonS »

symbogra wrote: post #321
GordonS wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is satire... right?

They're really pushing it hard in the media here

It's being pushed hard in the UK too. Some of what the tabloids spout is just totally unhinged.

It's got to the point where the media/gov could claim Russians eat babies, and many would believe it.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#375

Post by cycomanic »

kragen wrote: post #224
slow_typist wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see, but the grid operator has to collect the VAT for every kWh from the customer. I don’t pay VAT for my balcony PV and also not for the energy I get from it. That is not parity, I as a producer have an advantage here.

This is a good point.

Yes true, vat exception is an advantage.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#376

Post by GordonS »

watwut wrote: post #315
GordonS wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is satire... right?

1.) Russia is already sending drones to border countries. 2.) Russian politicians openly talk about such possibility. 3.) Russian interest in expansion is no secret. War with Russia is a real possibility. Considering NATO is not reliable anymore (due USA being less then reliable partner) , considering China seem to low key support Russia, it is not even crazy from the Russian side.

On drones: there is no evidence of that. The supposed "drone ship" that was siezed by France turned out to be crewed by Chinese and had no drones or weapons on board. A Croatian citizen were arrested regarding the drone near Frankfurt airport. Three Germans were arrested regarding the drones near Oslo.

Consider what Russia could possibly have to gain by randomly flying drones near civilian airports... nothing? Consider what NATO have to gain - stirring up anti-Russian sentiment, garnering consent for massive expenditure on an "EU drone wall" and continued money laundering in the Ukraine.

Please show me where Russian politicians openly talk about flying drones around European airports? I've seen Putin and others ridicule the very notion - and it really is ridiculous. Oh, I forgot about the supposed Russian drones in Poland too, drones which don't even have the range to get to Poland, and which had literally been duct-taped together from the remains of Russian drones and placed for a photoshoot!

Look at this map of NATO's expansion eastward toward Russia, and then please do tell about Russia's supposed expansion plans: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:History_of_NATO_enla...

War with Russia is only a real possibility because the US and EU want it.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#377

Post by jansan »

adrianN wrote: post #367
tirant wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Phase out of nuclear was agreed upon after Fukushima, long before Habeck had anything to say.

It was agreed upon under completely different circumstances, namely a stable supply of Russian gas. I cannot believe that people do not get this into their head.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#378

Post by earthnail »

cmenge wrote: post #233
zevon wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the person you are replying to is in a thread about Germany, mentions balcony solar and said "my little server turns it automatically on" (which is how you would construct that sentence in German instead of "turns it on automatically"), so my wild guess would be Germany. ;)

Germany isn't that big, but the difference between Freiburg and Hamburg is very significant in this case I believe

Germany has a pretty consistent climate. Doesn't really matter where you live. Of course, that's an oversimplification, but if you're new to Germany and wonder "oh, what's the weather going to be here?", the answer pretty much is "similar to the rest of the country".

You could then look at a map of France and think, ah, similarly sized country, probably also has a consistent climate, but that's not true. Southern France is very different from Northern France. But Germany's climate is pretty uniform.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#379

Post by jansan »

walthamstow wrote: post #339
grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a bad legacy for Robert Habeck (along with the wind reforms), the leader we needed but didn't deserve [1][2]. Interestingly he's recently dropped out of politics and taken a teaching role at UC Berkeley. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxwVR5JF8Ok 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxnnVPO9GFU

I'm not German nor do I live there, but I would have thought the legacy of Habeck would be more negative due to his opposition to nuclear.

It is very negative amongst large parts of the population, but he also has a very vocal fanbase.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#380

Post by mschuster91 »

grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #345
mschuster91 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A big factor in the quick return (and maybe one reason for its popularity) is that Germany has some of the most expensive electricity in the world. Part of that is because our method of pricing is different than it is in the rest of the world. It doesn't matter if you got a 3x50A or 3x200A three phase service, only during construction (because a 3x200A uplink will obviously be a decent bit pricier), the monthly fee…

Yep in a lot of ways it's a failure of the electricity market. It's absolutely bonkers how much I pay for electricity while I sit in the shadow of a giant onshore wind farm in Brandenburg. Transmission losses are nothing at this distance and the turbines cover the towns needs many times over. But because of the lack of regional and dynamic pricing (and tax burden) we pay ridiculous rates. I think if folks could finan…

> I think if folks could financially benefit from renewable projects in their neighborhoods, suddenly citizens opposition would fall apart.

That's actually happening already in some places - in Thüringen, nearby residents of a windmill get a share of the income [1], and the local municipality also gets a sizable amount... in small Mühlenfließ (Brandenburg) with less than 1000 souls living there, the 16 windmills provide 200.000€ a year in taxes, 10% of the municipal budget [2].

Unfortunately, you need politicians with a backbone to present such plans to their voters, and in rural areas many simply are afraid of far-right terrorism up to and including death threats [3], on top of "alternative" media and even supposedly democratic politicians riling people up against renewable power sources.

[1] https://www.gruene-thl.de/klima-energie/buergerinnen-und-kom...

[2] https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/technologie/windkraft-g...

[3] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/region-muenchen-windrae...

Post reply on HN