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Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

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Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#371

Post by onetimeusename »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #359
rm445 wrote: post #124

I am a Durham graduate, still somewhat involved with the university via some voluntary roles, and a bit of a 'booster' in the sense that I'll sing its praises to anyone. I also have a postgrad degree from Cambridge and did a little teaching while there. So, I'm quite familiar, and while I'm happy to see Durham get some love, this is bunk. There is a gulf in undergraduate teaching between Oxbridge and the pack. The su…

These are rankings by "national student survey", which is - how can I put this politely? - possibly not the most rigorous way to measure merit. Oxford has long had a reputation for being a dual university - a raw academic track for smart people, and a political/establishment track for people with money, connections, ambition, and the kind of entitled self-assurance that comes from easy privilege. "Political" doesn't…

Something I am curious about is Cambridge's reputation today for sciences. A lot of pretty famous British mathematicians have done the Tripos part III there. Is that still considered meaningful? I am asking because many US mathematics departments have shed or reduced their master's programs in favor of just focusing on the PhD for postgrads. For historical reasons I am curious how the Tripos part III there has fared.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#372

Post by wyclif »

rando001111 wrote: post #340
skippyboxedhero wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The time of every bright child having Oxbridge as first university pick ended quite a few years ago. Not accurate that parents are saying this either, the change has largely come from parents who are often people doing hiring and have seen the change over the past few years. The very top aren't applying there any more at all, you don't need to: Stanford, Harvard, MIT, all better. Oxford, in particular, has made their…

You're talking like Oxford is some school for shitdogs now. I went to an unranked school here in Canada for electrical engineering and graduated this year. I did a couple co-ops, won a couple engineering competitions and had my EIT job lined up for me after graduation. Started work a week after classes ended. Rankings are not the end-all be-all for uni.

You're talking like Oxford is some school for shitdogs now

A rather crude way to express it. But I don't think that pointing out that Oxbridge isn't always a first choice implies, um, "shitdog" status, whatever that is.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#373

Post by JdeBP »

alephnerd wrote: post #285
lo_zamoyski wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anglophilia

You are correct (the best kind of correct). I don't like using "Anglo" because it also implies the Anglophone world, so I'm hesitant to use "Anglophilia" because it is also often used to lump Australia, Canada, and even the US to a certain extent as well.

Then the equivalent adjective that you are grasping for is 'Britanno'.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#374

Post by [deleted] »

nextos wrote: post #328
checker659 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The very top aren't applying there any more at all Do you have a source to back this claim?

I think this statement is a bit of an exaggeration. There is undoubtedly some competition from US, but Oxbridge still attract a lot of the top talent. This is reflected in quantitative rankings like ARWU, where Cambridge and Oxford are always in the top of the pack, and often #1 in some subjects: https://www.shanghairanking.com/rankings/arwu/2025 . ARWU is biased towards research, but nevertheless Durham is currently…

[deleted]

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#375

Post by patanegra »

foven wrote: post #314
patanegra wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are studies that show how heritable intelligence is. Very. It is quite common people say, that something is only a correlation and not causation. But if you can point to a common denominator, that has been shown multiple times, to have a massive effect, it's not likely to be just a coincidence. Genes are this common denominator. Society and habits (for example, protestants vs catholics) are another. Things that…

Which gene gives me a tutor to support me at the most critical point in my intellectual development?

The genes of your parents?

Or now, for $20/month OpenAI? Or for pennies through OpenRouter?

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#376

Post by patanegra »

growse wrote: post #304
patanegra wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure, if it isn't so intensive in other schools. It is so intensive in our prep school. All kids aren't equally smart. Not all kids can also handle such a regime. It isn't for everyone. Those, who succeed in such schools, deserve not to be discriminated against, because their dad has a Range Rover and tweed suit. If a good independent school prepares a child better than a state school, the child should have…

> Otherwise, all those years of preparation and all that talent is wasted. In other words, the parents should get a return on their investment? Your child is not entitled to an Oxbridge place over a state-educated child because they might have more potential and ability, they're entitled because you paid extra for it ?

Well, when you as a parent, basically get your 9-year-old, work as many hours per year, as a full-time employed adult, so your child reaches its full potential, you expect, that this possibility will continue in all levels of education.

Anyway. If Oxford is going to pass on those kids, who are often multiple years ahead of the average, some other university will accept them. And then, this university will likely beat Oxford in ratings.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#377

Post by patanegra »

growse wrote: post #300
patanegra wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if it isn't true. And I say it as someone who went to a state school, just like my parents, grandparents...

Poor people just need to try harder, right? Or do they need to just be luckier?

Well, yes. Everyone needs to try harder.

In China, they speak about 996 (working 9am to 9pm 6 days a week; and since we speak about education, Chinese kids often learn from 7am up to 9pm, and when they are getting ready for University, they pull 12–14 hours a day consistently), in Europe, we speak about working only 4 days a week, and whether it is bad for kids to have homeworks.

We all, in Europe, should speak about working a bit harder. Especially those, who are not happy with where they are.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#378

Post by growse »

Retric wrote: post #353
krastanov wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I sympathize with some of your arguments, you are wrong about scholarships. Getting financial aid as a foreign student at an institution like Harvard, Yale, or MIT is the norm.

Some financial aid isn’t the same as being able to afford to go to a college in another country across an ocean. Collage loans seem like a great solution when you’re entering a highly lucrative career, but that’s not true for every top student.

Not least to say that most kids don't want to go to university thousands of miles away from their family, friends, and support networks.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#379

Post by growse »

patanegra wrote: post #376
growse wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Otherwise, all those years of preparation and all that talent is wasted. In other words, the parents should get a return on their investment? Your child is not entitled to an Oxbridge place over a state-educated child because they might have more potential and ability, they're entitled because you paid extra for it ?

Well, when you as a parent, basically get your 9-year-old, work as many hours per year, as a full-time employed adult, so your child reaches its full potential, you expect, that this possibility will continue in all levels of education. Anyway. If Oxford is going to pass on those kids, who are often multiple years ahead of the average, some other university will accept them. And then, this university will likely beat…

I'd be extremely wary of asserting that privately educated kids are any more successful at university than state-educated kids (on the same course) when there's no evidence to bear this out.

If, however, you want to convince yourself that the amount of money you've spent on your child's education means they're smarter than the rest, go right ahead and believe that.

Universities don't select for whether a candidate has "reached their full potential". They select for what that potential is.

Re: Oxford loses top 3 university ranking in the UK

#380

Post by cs02rm0 »

fatfox wrote: post #206
cs02rm0 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did international student income drop with Brexit, when the UK now have 4-600k student visas granted in each of the last few years vs 2-300k pre-Brexit?

I’m not sure where you’ve got the stats from, but student visas granted dropped since 2022, acc to UK gov (-5% in 2023, -14% in 2024).[0] Combined with universities' increasing reliance on international student income (over the last years) and issues accessing research funding, this can get universities into trouble. [0] https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-...

Here's one source, I checked a couple, the numbers varied between sources curiously but they seemed reasonably consistent.

They do show drops in the last year or two, but I find it hard to attribute that to Brexit when they're still much higher.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/293277/study-related-vis...

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