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Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

businessinsider.com

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Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#371

Post by typewithrhythm »

nonameiguess wrote: post #113

This is going to lead to these abstract discussions of subjective perceptual "productivity" as it always does, but by the actual economic definition of labor productivity, revenue per employee, Microsoft has gone from $143 billion with 163,000 in 2020 ($877,000 per head) to $282 billion with 228,000 ($1.24 million per head) so far this year. They've become the 2nd largest company in the world by market cap, in large…

How much of that is product engineering and how much is leasing access to capital during a GPU demand spike?

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#372

Post by bluGill »

closeparen wrote: post #362
dan-robertson wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big difference between feudalism and modern societies is that in feudalism, you expect to earn much less than the value of the land you inherit and pass on (or the custom or right of your family farming the land) whereas in modern societies most people will earn much more in lifetime earnings than they would inherit or pass on. This results in far more social mobility and much more freedom in praxis. I don’t think…

A West Coast software engineering career is barely worth the land underneath a house from which you could reasonably commute to it. We're getting there.

I'm glad I live in the midwest. Every story I hear about working in the bay area makes me wonder why anyone would.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#373

Post by myth2018 »

steveBK123 wrote: post #350
ponector wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> where it comes from It's a power play. To show regular folks their place. Big corpo is a modern feodal state, where CEO is an emperor, c-suites are kings, managers are barons, IC are peasants and external contractors are slaves(but leased from other owner). It's not only RTO, it's also about timetable and dress code. Yes, I had a beef with IT manager about dress code in the development office of a bank. Just becau…

My friend is CTO of a smaller company say ~250 people, and RTO constantly comes up in the C-suite. He is only able to fend it off by pointing out that they do not pay as well as their larger competitors, so the remote flexibility is a recruiting advantage. He describes the push for RTO from the rest of the C-suite as basically a combination of unspecific vibes that it must be bad if employees like it, and of course..…

> Likewise many companies in my slice of the industry point to one of the big leaders RTO policies as the reason to do the same

This also explains other things, not only RTO. Like when the mass layoffs started about three years ago. Overstaffed big-tech fired a few thousand allegedly idle employees and (not surprisingly) saw no impacts on output. That was enough for many smaller companies, some of them understaffed, to go on and do the same, surely encouraged by their investors. I have friends in a half dozen companies complaining about permanent overtime and severe project delays after the layoffs. Yet, referred companies are either not hiring, or doing it in a very leisurely pace.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#374

Post by mountainriver »

xenobeb wrote: post #208
kokanee wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I've been remote for 5 years across three different companies, and if anything I've had the opposite experience: my remote coworkers are far more responsive than my on-site coworkers, who are always in meetings, in transit, having in-person chit chat, or taking a break.

I went into the office for the first time 2 months ago. The worst part was how massively distracting it was. The people who like going into the office at my work, go in to socialize. They are bored at home. It literally has nothing to do with being productive. I am sure this is all a matter of scale though. My place is really small. At the scale of Microsoft I am sure there are thousands of people really gaming the s…

You mean you don’t love the horrible office politics? Where people treat each other terribly to get ahead by any means necessary? Where being “cool” is rewarded instead of actual results?

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#375

Post by mountainriver »

zero_shift wrote: post #190

At $org, we too are undertaking a mandatory RTO order, enforced with door access logs. People are up in arms, particularly those in our smaller locales, where the offices we have are perfunctory at best. The rationale is the usual one: collaboration, watercooler chat, unspecific evidence / "research" about productivity (that we are told definitely exists, but is yet to be shared). I remain baffled by executives' obse…

In office work is an artifact of the boomer generation and gen X. The world has changed its relationship to work and they can’t seem to come to terms with it.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#376

Post by itake »

zero_shift wrote: post #190

At $org, we too are undertaking a mandatory RTO order, enforced with door access logs. People are up in arms, particularly those in our smaller locales, where the offices we have are perfunctory at best. The rationale is the usual one: collaboration, watercooler chat, unspecific evidence / "research" about productivity (that we are told definitely exists, but is yet to be shared). I remain baffled by executives' obse…

This could be chicken or the egg, but I had a team member (that missed office time) for about 3 weeks, at the same time, they dramatically reduced the number of MRs merged and responsiveness on Slack.

I don’t know if her being in the office would have dampened their lack of engagement or if the office was making it worse.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#377

Post by snarfy »

Aurornis wrote: post #240
drewbitt wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the experience I have had too, particularly regarding managers who are in the office for the day. They are not spending much time at their desk.

> particularly regarding managers who are in the office for the day. They are not spending much time at their desk I mean, that's the point of RTO: These companies want people meeting face to face more and sitting alone at their computers less. I argue that this means it makes more sense for managers and leaders than ICs as a result.

This is really the crux of it, and I think a larger motivator than is given credit. If wfh = +2 Engineering -2 Management and you are weak on management, you RTO.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#378

Post by itake »

yallpendantools wrote: post #292
aeternum wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This theory is often-quoted but doesn't make much sense. Big tech including Microsoft already did multiple rounds of layoffs. Why not just do another round?

If you quit (because of, say, RTO) then you quit. It's a fairly standard deal between you and your employer. If you get laid-off, employer has to give you a severance package for any number of reasons (local labor laws, agreement with the union, corporate PR). This is not a standard deal and is, simply put, more expensive than if the employee just quit of their own accord. In both cases, employer gets the benefit of…

Yes… but they are asking why now? Why did Microsoft start with traditional layoffs and then transition into RTO layoffs years later?

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#379

Post by bluGill »

jameshart wrote: post #363
jimbob45 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well every company just happens to be undertaking RTO at the same time so it seems to be above the exec level. I’ve seen hypotheses on here that city councils are putting on pressure to boost their local economies and another that boards of directors are pushing this as the last chance to layoff->outsource before H-1Bs are banned. Whatever it is, it certainly doesn’t appear to stem from innovative or independent exec…

What leverage does a city council hold over a remote business?

They personally know the high exetutives in their area (not always c level). Probably the executive is knocking on doors for their political campaign. Between asking what the company wants they point out things the city wants.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#380

Post by ironman1478 »

zero_shift wrote: post #198
sugarpimpdorsey wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remote work used to be an earned privilege. Then COVID hit and everyone got a taste of it. Including the folks who discovered they could get paid to stay home and play video games and jackin' off during work hours. In a way you could say this group ruined it for everyone. But that's usually how these things go. The hammer comes down on everyone because otherwise it leads to uncomfortable questions like "why does HE g…

I'm sorry to take a belligerent tone, but this is total revisionism. People have always slacked off and bringing them into the office doesn't change that. Maybe I'm an old greybeard as someone with more than five years experience in the workforce, but don't you remember before COVID ? People screwed around all the time! On coffee breaks or smoke breaks or extended meetings or late lunches or ping-pong tables or just…

I remember the pre COVID times and people messed around, but they were available. You could actually find them in the building if they were just playing ping pong or something. In the remote world it can be very difficult to reach somebody.

I prefer remote work, but not everybody is good at it and it can ruin it for everybody.

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