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Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

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Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#371

Post by bawolff »

tyingq wrote: post #281
kelvinjps10 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? It's one of the most popular sites

I won't call it dead, but it is declining. Their various sources of traffic are now regurgitating Wikipedia Content (and other 3rd party sources) via uncited/unlinked AI "blurbs"...instead of presenting snippets of Wikipedia contents with links to Wikipedia to read more. It's not the only reason their traffic is declining, but it seems like a big one.

People have been talking about wikipedia's decline since like 2008. It seems fine.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#372

Post by Jensson »

al_borland wrote: post #285
sylens wrote: post #173

I think ultimately this is a good decision. The web has flourished in part because Google has supported Chrome so well over the years since they are incentivized to do so. You don't have to use Chrome (I don't) to benefit from this second order effect.

Everywhere I look people are complaining about how awful the internet is now. That is largely due to Google influence and dominance over the past 15 years. People see ads as the only way to monetize a product, attention is the currency of the internet, and all original utility from many sites has been stripped away to prioritize addiction and attention. Since these things are all that matters, bots and AI generated c…

All other corporations have tried to funnel users to app stores away from websites, their internet is just an app store without any internet. I take Googles internet over Microsofts or Apples any day.

Google made chrome to avoid such a thing, without chrome its likely the internet as a set of websites humans visit would be all but dead today. It is already a marginal part of traffic, 90% of mobile time is spent on apps and not browsers, but it would be much less if there were no good browser competition to Apple and Microsoft.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#373

Post by quicklime »

b112 wrote: post #63
fidotron wrote: post #19

This is an astonishing victory for Google, they must be very happy about it. They get basically everything they want (keeping it all in the tent), plus a negotiating position on search deals where they can refuse something because they can't do it now. Quite why the judge is so concerned about the rise of AI factoring in here is beyond me. It's fundamentally an anticompetitive decision.

So... Google's punishment is to stop paying Apple and Mozilla for default search deals?! Well I guess that'll help?! (Yes, judges can search for best market solutions)

Looks like the Mozilla deal is still ok? https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2025/09/google-antitrust-ruling-...

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#374

Post by codethief »

socksy wrote: post #280
ajross wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you not see ChatGPT and Claude as viable alternatives to search? This subthread is classic HN. Huge depth of replies all chiming in to state some form of the original prior: that "AI is a threat to search"... ... without even a nod to the fact that by far the best LLM-assisted search experience today is available for free at the Google prompt. And it's not even close, really. People are so set in their positions…

What? The Google LLM assisted search experience is... not the best option by a long shot? It's laughably incorrect in many cases, and infuriatingly incorrect in the others. It forces itself into your queries above the fold without being asked, and then bullshits to you. A recentish example, I was trying to remember which cities' buses were in Thessaloniki before they got a new batch recently. They used to rent from a…

> The LLM forced its way in there without me prompting

I agree this is annoying but other than that I really can't follow your argument: You're comparing a keyword-like "prompt" given to Google's LLM to a well-phrased question given to ChatGPT and are surprised the former doesn't produce the same results?

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#375

Post by nomoreofthat »

nerpderp82 wrote: post #348
bc569a80a344f9c wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it is easy to see a near future where an AI agent just retrieves and summarizes the case for you. And does a much better job too. I am significantly less confident that an LLM is going to be any good at putting a raw source like a court ruling PDF into context and adequately explain to readers why - and what details - of the decision matter, and what impact they will have. They can probably do an OK job summari…

> significantly less confident that an LLM is going to be any good at putting a raw source like a court ruling PDF into context and adequately explain to readers why You should play with LLMs this week.

[flagged]

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#376

Post by rascul »

ryandrake wrote: post #260
IshKebab wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is a competitor. You know how StackOverflow is dead because AI provided an alternative? That's happening in search too. You might think "but ChatGPT isn't a search engine", and that's true. It can't handle all queries you might use a search engine for, e.g. if you want to find a particular website. But there are many many queries that it can handle. Here's just a few from my recent history: * How do I load a share…

Is it common to use Internet search like that??? You're typing in literal questions to a search box rather than keywords, the name of the site you're looking for, or topics you want to read about. Maybe I'm just too old school, from the time where internet searches were essentially keyword searches, but it would have never occurred to me to type an actual english question as a full sentence into a search box. If that…

Isn't that what Ask Jeeves was for in the 90s?

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#377

Post by rascul »

girvo wrote: post #340
Eji1700 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much like microsoft, it's really the best possible outcome. Winning a case is one thing, as they can find other reasons to come back. Losing, and saying "but we were already punished, you got what you want" is such a barrier to EVER putting any sort of realistic reigns on them. They might as well just bury antitrust now and stop pretending.

Antitrust is and has been dead for a long time at this point. It’s not coming back, to the detriment of society.

There's an antitrust case ongoing right now involving Michael Jordan and NASCAR.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#378

Post by ankit219 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #10

Firefox can still get money, and maybe Apple too. The ruling says they can pay for preload, but not for exclusivity. Google also must share search data with competitors, but it's not totally clear what this is. The ruling mentions helping other engines with "long tail" queries. All in all this seems like a pretty mild ruling, and an appeal can generally only help Google from a not to bad ruling at this point.

The problem for the judge seems to be that there is no alternative at this point. No other company can bid for or credibly pay Apple/Mozilla as much as Google did. Apple testified they would spend less on innovation if the payment goes away, Mozilla said they wont survive. So the alternative for the judge is to create a market in the next five years where people invest in search, there are more credible products that come up, and are competitive enough to justify the placement bids (ending dependency on google).

The nuclear option was DDG's hope. Google should share their entire data, so DDG can offer the same product without having to build out the thing themselves. The judge correctly identified (imo) where this sharing of index and search results would have meant a bunch of white labeled wrappers selling Google search and would have no incentive to innovate themselves in the short term. Somehow, DDG did not see that happening. At that goal, it's a great ruling, well considered.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#380

Post by rendaw »

IshKebab wrote: post #116
stackskipton wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feels like judge was looking for any excuse not to apply harsh penalty and since Google brought up AI as competitor, the judge accepted it as acceptable excuse for very minor penalty.

AI is a competitor. You know how StackOverflow is dead because AI provided an alternative? That's happening in search too. You might think "but ChatGPT isn't a search engine", and that's true. It can't handle all queries you might use a search engine for, e.g. if you want to find a particular website. But there are many many queries that it can handle. Here's just a few from my recent history: * How do I load a share…

Is StackOverflow dead now? And because of AI?

It still usually has the standard quality of answers for most questions I google. I google fewer questions because modern languages have better documentation cultures.

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