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We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

thenexus.media

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Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#371

Post by pbhjpbhj »

coldtea wrote: post #330
mattnewton wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west Okay but that is exactly why I would prefer a western liberal government. It is better and that is ideal is worth criticizing authoritarians for, and fighting to keep in the west.

In certain things it can be better. Singapore might be a state run authoritatively with the same party in power for 60 years, but you're free to walk around at any time without fear of any crime happening to you. Or public projects that "just work" where in the "western liberal" case their deteriorate or are tied up in bureucracy. And life if "you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble" is…

Prevalence of masked gangs (ostensibly a Gestapo, but without uniform or id) kidnapping people in government buildings without police intervening appears (as an outside observer) to be ~100% higher than under recent USA administrations.

Are you saying this was already happening, just as much, under Obama, say?

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#372

Post by slightwinder »

hax0ron3 wrote: post #236
pharrington wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of what ICE has been doing for the last six months? And that Trump has militarized Washington DC?

Yes, but ICE is not deporting, denaturalizing, or imprisoning US citizens for their political opinions, and I would have very little to no fear about going to Washington DC right now, standing up on a podium, and yelling that Trump sucks while there are 100 National Guardsmen across the street from me. This is very different from what things are like in places like Russia.

> Yes, but ICE is not deporting, denaturalizing, or imprisoning US citizens for their political opinions.

Actually, they do. If you have the wrong color, they take any reason as a pretext for action.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#373

Post by mapotofu »

skeezyboy wrote: post #348

disagree on the first line "credit score is social credit". the chinese also have credit scores ya dummy

If you’re going to be commenting a lot, consider reading the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Specifically all of the parts about commenting. Looking at your posts it seemed like you had no idea these exist.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#374

Post by pbhjpbhj »

mattnewton wrote: post #252
danny_codes wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I live in the US and people are getting persecuted right now for being a minority, being politically active, or being in legal trouble. So not seeing a huge difference between liberal democracies and authoritarians.

Yes, because we’re sliding into authoritarianism and we need to criticize and correct course

Sliding in? Your head of state declared themselves to be a dictator, declared the end of the rule of law, and ignores the constitution. They openly take bribes without consequences. They, or their handlers, unilaterally decide on the application of justice and the progress of investigations. They unilaterally control international relations (eg tariffs) without oversight. They put armed military on the streets. They have taken action to prevent ongoing democratic elections.

At what point does it become authoritarian to you?

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#375

Post by barrkel »

betaby wrote: post #281
mettamage wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy moly the US is kafkaesque. Gee. Duly noted. I might be in your position one day in the far future. Will prep for it. Thanks :)

> Holy moly the US is kafkaesque. Not really. Try to rent an apartment in Germany (any EU country really). Canada / USA is a breeze in comparison.

What is more common in many European countries is a check of a national debt register, to see if you're a known bad debtor. This is distinct from a credit check, because it's not something you need to build up; just something you need to avoid. Someone fresh into the country won't have a problem here.

I moved to Switzerland and all I needed was a clean debt register entry and my employer contract.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#376

Post by Justsignedup »

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

The problem of authoritarianism is the preparedness paradox.

They are less prepared for problems. And so suddenly problems happen all the time.

But when there are no problems... Things are going well for the average person.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#377

Post by slightwinder »

torginus wrote: post #207
darthoctopus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you even read the article? Here is the situation in China: > Here's what's actually happening. As of 2024, there's still no nationwide social credit score in China. Most private scoring systems have been shut down, and local government pilots have largely ended. It’s mainly a fragmented collection of regulatory compliance tools, mostly focused on financial behavior and business oversight. While well over 33 milli…

I've always told people that social credit as used by China was unsed to track dishonest businesses who scammed people and/or other businesses by breaking agreements and not delivering as promised. The fact there's a credit system that protects banks from the people makes it painfully obvious who is in charge of Western society - consider this: You take out a loan to contract the company to build you a house. The com…

> I've always told people that social credit as used by China was unsed to track dishonest businesses who scammed people and/or other businesses by breaking agreements and not delivering as promised.

To be fair, that's the outcome. But there has been attempts to make more problematic, more intrusive, darker versions of this. They just never worked out for technical or ethical/legal reasons. And they made a nice picture to frame the competing culture, darker than they are.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#378

Post by whatevaa »

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

Until an asshole comes to power and decides that genociding half of population is ok. Happens al the time.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#379

Post by idiomat9000 »

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

No, it is not. It seems that way if you are a (s)expat in the honeymoonphase. Then you learn the language and look into the abyss.

In it families who can not trust one another, hierarchies of incompetence with bribes upon bribes, no legal recourse to anything, a caste system of actual misery and no perspective for that to ever change. And that is peace time. In wartime the ethnic majority progroms and kicks everyone else out of the country.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#380

Post by jl6 »

aslannn wrote: post #298
mattnewton wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west Okay but that is exactly why I would prefer a western liberal government. It is better and that is ideal is worth criticizing authoritarians for, and fighting to keep in the west.

Well, if you're in this category in the US (equivalent is being on some kind of arbitrary list that you're not allowed to see and have no way to appeal) your life will also be horrible.

The US being imperfect, or currently on an authoritarian swing, in no way makes it equivalent to countries that are all-in on authoritarianism. The US is still among the very best places in the world to be a minority, politically active, or in legal trouble.
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