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Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

josefprusa.com

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Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#371

Post by rcarmo »

WillAdams wrote: post #58
razemio wrote: post #14

A genuine Question. Is open hardware even possible at some point? The advances in quality and speed are nothing short but impressive. I started 3d printing stuff in my basement one year ago (Ender V3 Plus). With the quality and speed improvements, comes technology which gets more complex every year. Companies spend millions to archive this. Why would they share it? I remember building drones in my basement (still on…

As a person who chose to buy an Elegoo Centauri Carbon rather than upgrade his Ordbot Quantum w/ a heated bed and enclosure and to then try to re-design it to use a CoreXY motion system, I would agree that is exactly the path which we are on --- the new printer came in at a lower price than just the initial parts order for heated bed and enclosure, let alone a different motion system. All of the printers which I want…

They also seem to have major bugs, maybe even some serious security issues: https://www.reddit.com/r/elegoo/comments/1mbhnmn/centauri_ca...

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#372

Post by immibis »

xdennis wrote: post #258
reactordev wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't entirely disagree with you. You have to understand why the courts exist at all. To govern working class citizens. Laws are written by the powerful and wealthy - always has been - to control the working class (everyone else). You're freedom is an illusion. A social contract agreed upon by you following certain rules. Those rules, written by the wealthy, don't apply to the wealthy. In a just society they…

> You have to understand why the courts exist at all. To govern working class citizens. Laws are written by the powerful and wealthy - always has been - to control the working class (everyone else). It's amazing that after so many failures people are still preaching communism. You'd have a leg to stand on if you could produce a single communist society which worked for the working class instead of the communist elite…

Can you produce a single capitalist society which worked for the working class instead of the capitalist elites?

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#373

Post by immibis »

jandrese wrote: post #294
thayne wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that patents are so (intentionally) difficult to understand that even patented technology is basically trade secrets now anyway. And the useful designs are protected by NDAs.

You can't put a NDA on a Patent. NDAs are basically the modern version of guilds. Imagine a world where absolutely everything about your job is kept under a strict NDA. This is true of startups, but it doesn't scale, especially once you start actually selling product and need to make customers happy to get the sale.

It's much easier to spread information now than in the past. NDAs are slow leaks if you don't keep your employees tightly monitored at all times. Or if they play War Thunder.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#374

Post by immibis »

beng-nl wrote: post #193
uticus wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a proper "Engrish" instruction manual At what point do the instruction manuals stop catering to Engrish and start focusing on 汉字?

I quite honestly fear this day. (But for other reasons, eg we might have to go to china for top conferences, universities, jobs, etc.).

It's already here. All the best cheap microcontrollers have datasheets written purely in Chinese. Most Westerners don't use them because the datasheets are written purely in Chinese, and therefore, Western products with cheap microcontrollers use inferior ones.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#375

Post by dvdkon »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #331
mrguyorama wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why have they built innovative Taiwan invasion barges if they do not want war? Building weapons to sink American carriers and boats and having a limited nuclear arsenal can be seen as trying to prevent the US from being able to blockade China from it's food and energy imports. But there is no possible way to wave away the literal Taiwan invasion barges and the planning they signal. That's not something you build unle…

They want Taiwan. That's for sure. But they don't want war. War is a last resort action they will go to, to get Taiwan. But war with the US? They don't want it and are trying to avoid it at all costs. Taiwan is none of the US's business right? The war here is in actuality really just the US starting it. The US in the end will have to make a choice here. Do we fuck with China and Taiwan or do we not? So in short. They…

Do you mean they don't "want war with the US"? Because right now you seem to be saying that China "doesn't want war, they just want to annex another sovereign country".

Likewise, I wouldn't describe having defensive allies as "trying to start war". That's starting to sound like the Russian "we're only bombing them because they didn't immediately surrender, so it's their fault" school of thought.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#376

Post by martin-t »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #366
martin-t wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other replies are good. The general principle is inverting who has power. It should always be with people doing real positive-sum work, not those with money whose primary business of redistributing money and taking a cut. If they are allowed to ask for something, they will and because they have more power, they are able to pressure people into unfavorable deals. They don't need your band, there's plenty of others…

> It should always be with people doing real positive-sum work, not those with money I don't like the conclusion, but I've convinced myself that curating and selecting what is worth doing is actually the real work. Picking where the bridge is to go is more important than building it. So allocating money is the important work. It feels icky to me... but also inescapable.

How would people with money and no artistic talent know? If we're not talking about art but some other kind of productive work - again - money does not qualify them. It gives them the power to decide, it probably lets them cultivate a skill for knowing which investments are gonna make money and which are gonna lose it. But it does not qualify them to decide what is beneficial for others.

As for the analogy - who picks where it gets built? It better be an engineer. And just look at the mounf of work done by the engineer, the builders and some suit who rubber stamps it. Work and skill is what should be rewarded, not having money.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#377

Post by AlienRobot »

nine_k wrote: post #241
jandrese wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's telling that before the Patent system the solution was secretive guilds that jealously (sometimes lethally) guarded their secrets to avoid competition. This was obviously terrible since it greatly slowed down innovation. I'm not sure what the correct solution is to this problem. We want to avoid anything that causes a return of the guild system, but at the same time we don't want small inventors steamrolled by l…

(Repeating for umpteenth time:) I wish patent fees were exponential. Pay $10 the first year, $40 the second year, $160 the third year,.. $10,485,760 the tenth year, etc. The patent expires and goes to public domain the first year when the fee has not been not paid. This way there'd be enough time to commercialize an invention for basically peanuts, so the small guy won't be dissuaded from doing so. OTOH holding on a…

Why not make it so there is a limit to how many patents you can hold? So if you have 10 patents, to register an 11th patent you need to release one of the patents you already have.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#378

Post by lm28469 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #20

As a hardware guy, and someone who loves coming up with fun product ideas, China is the ASI LLM of the hardware world. Like don't even bother trying to compete, they are faster, cheaper, have better yield, and don't really need to be profitable. Imagine what the software industry would look like if an LLM could look at any completed software product, and a few weeks to a month later have made a perfect copy of it. It…

> Those $800 Chinese printers are extremely capable after all.

I got my bambu a1 for ~300 euros during the latest sales, I'm still kind of shocked at how good it is for the price. I can't remember the last time I was that impressed by a piece of hardware

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#379

Post by Geee »

ohdeargodno wrote: post #236
sarchertech wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not better in every way. For long term reliability and ability to repair and upgrade, Prusa is far superior.

Cool, but that's not why people buy things. I don't buy a bike for the pleasure of getting to repair it when I inevitably eat shit on a gravel road. While you're busy ordering parts for your Prusa and taking it apart, people just buy another A1 or P1P for basically nothing. While you're spending 5 hours trying to stabilise your printing plate and ensuring your nozzle isn't vomiting out super melted , the bambulabs go…

Prusa isn't like that. It just works. I've been printing years without any issue or repair.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#380

Post by n8m8 »

martin-t wrote: post #176
AlexandrB wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP is just too strong. The terms are ridiculously long (especially for copyright), there are multiple workarounds for "fair use", such as DMCA, and patents on simple concepts like linked lists are not laughed out of the room. All of this stuff needs to be weakened (and shortened). Part of the reason Chinese companies are able to iterate quickly on technology like 3d printers or drones is that it's possible to simply…

It's not a binary too string / too weak. It's that _copyright_: - protects the wrong entities (corporations instead of individuals who did the real work) - IP should be collectively owned by the people who created it and selling it should be illegal, - is too long, yes - DMCA can be used to harass without actually owning the IP and there are no penalties - the fair use exception can be used to allow clear cases of pl…

"protects the wrong entities (corporations instead of individuals who did the real work)"

> laughs in Capitalism

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