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Debian 13 “Trixie”

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Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#371

Post by JdeBP »

b112 wrote: post #14

You can still use sysvinit, I've already tested servers and desktop builds. From my build box: chroot $MOUNTPOINT/ /bin/bash -c "http_proxy=$aptproxy apt-get -y --purge --allow remove-essential install sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils systemd-sysv- systemd-" There is a weird depends you cannot get around without simultaneously removing and installing in parallel. A Debian bug highlighted the above, with a "-" for systemd…

I can credit you, in version 1.42, with more than a hyperlink to random posts on Hacker News if you have something better elsewhere on the WWW. (-:

* https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/services/systemd-login...

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#372

Post by JdeBP »

saint_yossarian wrote: post #179
superkuh wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On boot has been the standard for a long time and is still the most common. I am personally surprised to hear that now Debian and some distros do it via various automated ways at time intervals.

It's a systemd thing, see `man systemd-tmpfiles`.

I think that superkuh's point is that it is not a systemd thing. Cleaning up /tmp by deleting old files has been around since before systemd was invented. Since before Linux was invented, even.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#373

Post by b112 »

JdeBP wrote: post #372
saint_yossarian wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a systemd thing, see `man systemd-tmpfiles`.

I think that superkuh's point is that it is not a systemd thing. Cleaning up /tmp by deleting old files has been around since before systemd was invented. Since before Linux was invented, even.

Yes but in Debian this was not a default until now.

Before, /tmp was wiped on reboot. /var/tmp was not.

Neither were cleaned otherwise.

So for Debian, this is a systemd thing. And it was pushed by a systemd maintainer, who is also a Debian developer.

I have zero interest in Debian "being brought inline" with other distros, because other distros should be coming inline with Debian.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#374

Post by account42 »

JackeJR wrote: post #212
rbanffy wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing I can say against Debian is that it tends to start new server software immediately after install, before I have a chance to configure it properly. Defaults are sane for most packages, but, still, it scares me a little. In that I like the Red Hat approach of installing and leaving it off until I decide to turn it on.

Just have sane firewall rules and you are good. E.g. if I install openssh-server and it auto starts, it doesn't make it out of my machine because my nftables does not allow inbound on port 22. It's just knowing the default behaviour and adjusting your practices for it.

This is the "you're holding it wrong" response to a clear design issue.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#375

Post by account42 »

kasabali wrote: post #249
Arnavion wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No option to disable this either, per discussion in https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1085370 The discussion in that bug is that the Debian maintainer (and upstream dev) is open to an upstream patch to add such an option.

> Debian maintainer (and upstream dev) is open to an upstream patch to add such an option Wild interpretation right here. There are only 2 realistic choices: Leave it as is or patch out the warning message in the Debian package Debian maintainer is clearly deflecting the responsibility here because everyone knows very well that upstream wouldn't accept such a patch. As it's already explained in the bug report, since…

Perhaps we need to have a concept of separation of upstream and distros.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#376

Post by account42 »

bayindirh wrote: post #57

Debian's signature feature (upgrade from stable to stable under 15 minutes) shines here too. My first system migrated in less than 10 minutes, incl. package downloads and reboot. It's not a beast either. N100 mini PC connected to a ~50mbps network.

Is this really a signature feature when rolling release distros are common?

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#377

Post by account42 »

LoveMortuus wrote: post #252

I'm very sad to see them drop support for 32-bit, since that is the computer on which I have been using Debian for the past 10 years... Does anyone have any suggestions for a 32-bit distro that's still being updated?

Gentoo still supports it but depending on what you want, compile times with modern compilers on old hardware are a pain.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#378

Post by account42 »

starkparker wrote: post #239

Maybe a niche concern, but SDL2 is still in Trixie. The sdl2-compat layer (translating SDL2 APIs to SDL3) is in testing, where SDL2 also exists side-by-side with it and is intended to be used to test and verify that SDL2 apps that use it are actually compatible. Night-and-day decision-making process compared to Fedora and Arch, which both replaced SDL2 with sdl2-compat, broke a bunch of SDL2 apps because sdl2-compat…

Well Fedora is the equivalent of testing for Red Hat and Arch is Arch.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#379

Post by bayindirh »

account42 wrote: post #376
bayindirh wrote: post #57

Debian's signature feature (upgrade from stable to stable under 15 minutes) shines here too. My first system migrated in less than 10 minutes, incl. package downloads and reboot. It's not a beast either. N100 mini PC connected to a ~50mbps network.

Is this really a signature feature when rolling release distros are common?

Yes, esp. if you are using Debian at infra and in production. I upgraded three servers in the morning while sipping my tea. Nobody noticed anything.

For RedHat family, this is nigh impossible, requiring hours of planning, downtimes, etc., and even then, it's not guaranteed to work.

If you prefer a rolling release, and won't use it on a server, Debian Testing got you covered (unless you are in a security sensitive environment). My systems are well-isolated from outside, so desktop systems can run Testing without issues.

Servers and exposed systems always run stable with security updates installed automatically, though.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#380

Post by account42 »

Paianni wrote: post #360
kasabali wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, it looks pretty in screenshots but it's a huge waste of screen space in the end.

I suppose 'power-users' can put up with 'small-button' GUIs but I do think a general purpose GUI needs to be easy to use for people who aren't used to controlling mice and keyboards all the time.

Those users won't use Devuan or Gnome but Android/iOS.
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