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Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

trial.medpath.com

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Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#371

Post by globular-toast »

glp1guide wrote: post #343
toomuchtodo wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difficulty level of obtaining Retatrutide through non traditional channels?

It's completely illegal -- the drug is not for sale, obviously is not FDA approved, and is not manufactured anywhere, the only safe/legal way to get it is a via an ongoing trial: https://trials.lilly.com/en-US/trial/580035 As one might imagine though, capitalism found a way. A LOT of compounding pharmacies are now very good at manufacturing GLP1s (not necessarily the case that the knowledge transfers, but I imagine n…

Why is it illegal? Are drugs illegal by default or has it been specifically controlled/scheduled?

I looked up which drugs are scheduled in the UK and found the list is about 100x longer than I thought it was and in fact the government don't even publish a definitive and exhaustive list of all substances.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#372

Post by strken »

rbranson wrote: post #362
strken wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No free lunch" is a reasonable question to ask when evaluating medication, if it would improve the evolutionary fitness of the majority of people. I think this is behind some of the skepticism. If Ozempic is so great then how come our bodies don't just produce more GLP-1? How come we aren't like chimps, with eternally shredded bodies and cheese grater abs, provided we get the protein to support them? I would guess t…

none of the things you cited are “miracle weight loss drugs.” they are things people did to lose weight. these are the first class of drugs that actually cause people to lose weight.

I would have to check my sources but I'm pretty sure some of them have been prescribed for weight loss at various times.

DNP and stimulants I'm more confident of, nicotine and tape worms I'm a bit iffy about.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#373

Post by astrange »

blitzar wrote: post #110
morkalork wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even then, limiting calorie intake isn't all that difficult; there's a reason why intermittent fasting took off and so many people were getting results from it.

Limiting calorie intake is easy. Consuming near unlimited calories is even easier and a lot more fun.

I will tell you the secret: resistant fiber supplements.

There's other zero-calorie foods too, but they tend to cause intestinal discomfort rather than improve it.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#374

Post by throwup238 »

Aurornis wrote: post #118
cm2187 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also the idea that it is "easy" to lose weight is completely out of touch. If it was there wouldn't be millions of people trying hard, spending money on trying and failing for decades, and entire businesses addressing that. RFK Jr's "let them eat less" is paradoxically the modern version of "let them eat cake"!

> And also the idea that it is "easy" to lose weight is completely out of touch. If it was there wouldn't be millions of people trying hard, spending money on trying and failing for decades, and entire businesses addressing that. This is a touchy topic, but I would like to point out that you're missing the obvious confirmation bias that comes with this observation. There are many people who modulate their weight by c…

> I'm also not suggesting it's easy, but we should acknowledge that many people do successfully control and modulate their weight through dietary and habit changes.

For example: weightlifters. It’s standard operating procedure to “bulk up” - periods where lifters overeat to promote muscle growth - and then diet to “cut” weight to drop the fat gained during the bulking period while keeping the muscle. They tend to be extremely motivated individuals though.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#375

Post by astrange »

themafia wrote: post #167
smiley1437 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tirzepatide (and likely other GLPs) have limitations that are rarely brought up in the general media - Patients have about 72 weeks to reach maximum loss, they don't lose any more weight after 72 weeks even on the highest dose. - Patients appear to immediately gain the weight back as soon as they stop taking it. It's right in the phase 3 trial outcomes paper: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10667099/ I suspe…

> I suspect that this info is intentionally down-played so that it doesn't affect sales. Yea, hard to figure out why drug companies keep producing "Faustian bargains" in our current system. What galls me is people assume the best for new drugs instead of forcing the _for profit_ entity to prove it's actually safe and useful. To the extent that, reliably, the first comment on these posts on Hacker News are some wishy…

Novo Nordisk is majority owned by a charity and is therefore not a for-profit entity.

> What galls me is people assume the best for new drugs instead of forcing the _for profit_ entity to prove it's actually safe and useful.

That's what the FDA approval process is. They already did that in 2017.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#376

Post by throwup238 »

throwawaylaptop wrote: post #194
leidenfrost wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insulin control is about managing hunger more than a direct cause for weight. You don't even need to do keto or wacky "just meat" diets to handle insulin. Protein consumption prevents insulin spikes for around 1-2 hours after eating. Also, proteins and fats slow down digestion. Turns out, the good old Mediterranean diet is spot-on for a healthy lifestyle.

? Insulin is not about management of hunger. I think you got your hormones mixed up. But yes, meat and vegetables is basically what I'd recommend. Never pasta or bread or sugar unless you need help gaining weight.

He’s probably thinking of ghrelin (or NPY), but leptin and insulin both act as satiety signals too, although weaker than the hunger signal.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#377

Post by astrange »

godshatter wrote: post #112
some_random wrote: post #15

I find it fascinating how much a pretty large group of people just hate semaglutides and seemingly need to believe that it's some kind of Faustian bargain. I'm not talking about the people who are cautious or suspicious, that's more than reasonable, but it's clear that it's not cautious optimism in many.

I'm not a fan because it's expensive and once you go off of the drug the weight comes back on (at least from what I've read). That's not a trade-off I want to take lightly. There's also something to be said for gaining the discipline to do it yourself along the way, which may lead to keeping more of the weight off in the long run. We also don't know what the long term side effects of it will be, if any. I don't find…

"Discipline" doesn't exist, or rather it's a feature of your brain and not something you can necessarily learn. GLP-1 inhibitors and stimulants (modafinil, amphetamine, etc) are drugs that literally give you "discipline".

Habits are something you can learn though, and having more discipline helps you form them.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#378

Post by djtango »

johncolanduoni wrote: post #347
nomel wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Calvinist society who think nothing good comes without suffering Or, some of us older folks have been around long enough to understand that we are, in an uncontroversial and factual way, the long term medical trial, and long term effects found in that trial, along with the eventual market withdrawal, may not show up until 10 to 20 years later, creating a healthy distrust in the money/corporations behind the, someti…

How many times has a drug had negative effects that only showed up after 10-20 years? Out of all the drugs that have been widely prescribed in, say, the last 100 years? And it’s not even actually a new drug class - Liraglutide was approved in 2010! Should we wait until the clinical trial participants all die of old age until we put a drug on the market?

Most the nonpharmaceuticals I could list from memory, I had to google the medication

Nonpharmaceuticals

- microplastics

- bisphenol A

- asbestos

- nicotine

- DDT

- fungicides like HCB

- PFAS

Pharmaceutical

- benzodiazepines

- Terfenadine

- Benfluorex

Of the 528 new drugs approved over the period of interest, a total of 22 (4.2%) were eventually withdrawn. Between 3.9% and 4.4% of the drugs approved in each 5-year period were eventually withdrawn (χ2 = 0.04, p = 0.99 for difference among 5-year periods). The median time between approval and withdrawal was 1271 days (interquartile range 706–2876).[0]

By some estimates 7% of US have used semaglutides. That is 24.5M people. That could be 24.5M people who have benefitted but if it turns out that there are long term consequences, that's a lot of people who are now all in that ship together when at least some of those users could have chosen lifestyle intervention rather than chemical intervention. If we take the 4.2% recall rate that gives an EV of 980k people in the US who will suffer adverse effects from semaglutides

[0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4085091/?utm_source...

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#379

Post by astrange »

Barrin92 wrote: post #33
some_random wrote: post #15

I find it fascinating how much a pretty large group of people just hate semaglutides and seemingly need to believe that it's some kind of Faustian bargain. I'm not talking about the people who are cautious or suspicious, that's more than reasonable, but it's clear that it's not cautious optimism in many.

>seemingly need to believe that it's some kind of Faustian bargain I mean, that's because that's literally what they need to believe. A majority of people has been brought up on an incredibly moralized account of human behavior, and if it turns out you can just pour some GLP-1 drugs into the drinking water and basically fix a whole bunch of issues it will become obvious that a therapeutic framing is the appropriate w…

I personally believe the theory that obesity in the US is caused by other things in the water supply[0], so adding GLP-1 inhibitors would cancel them out.

[0] obesity appears to be caused by moving downstream/to lower altitudes, and has increased in farm and lab animals at the same rates as humans.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#380

Post by astrange »

smt88 wrote: post #79
genewitch wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

every time in recorded human history when there's be a panacea or cure-all it's generally been snake-oil. There are a lot of side effects, of this type of medicine - many which were not really prevalent when it was prescribed on-label.

There are lots of miraculous, life-saving drugs that have minimal side effects and aren't snake oil. Metformin, insulin, many vaccines, some statins, and some antibiotics are clearly on that list.

Statins cause uncontrollable anger in some people… but also lower it in other people.

eg https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... finds it reduces anger in men but increases it in women.

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