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‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

bbc.com

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Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#371

Post by zahlman »

churchill wrote: post #7
leosanchez wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I, for one, am thankful this hasn't been taken down like any article remotely critical of Israel. Wait for few more hours to be thankful.

Was flagged and restored just now, haha. Edit: And this comment is flagged to hell, as well, haha. I guess saying that the systematic murder of civilians is bad is now a controversial opinion, lmao.

> I guess saying that the systematic murder of civilians is bad is now a controversial opinion, lmao.

No, but this mode of discourse is obnoxious and uncharitable.

> Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#372

Post by kalberg6429 »

wahern wrote: post #192
jedimind wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what we were thought in school as well, but the actual history quite a bit more complicated than that. Modern racial antisemitism and political Zionism were two modern political projects that grew from the same 19th century soil of nationalism and race theory. They did not agree with each other, but they converged, from opposite directions, on the same fundamental conclusion: that the Jewish people constituted…

> The leadership and foot soldiers of the early Zionist project in Palestine (1900s), were not suffering from the trauma of the Holocaust (it was decades before) and did not suffer from any meaningful antisemitism You're conveniently ignoring the Eastern European pogroms during the late 19th and especially early 20th century. Jewish immigration, in both number and origin, to Palestine not-so-coincidentally tracks the…

You're conveniently imposing your misreading on that quote since it's clearly talking about the experiences of _those Zionists living in Palestine_ around 1900.

David Ben-Gurion was the founder of Israel and its first Prime Minister and he confirms that: "They are nearly all good-hearted, and are easily befriended. One might say that they are like big children." David Ben-Gurion in Igrot (Letters), Tel Aviv: Am Oved and Tel Aviv University, Vol. I, 1971

And how come those pogroms didn't make those Zionist-Jews more empathetic to suffering and persecution? Instead they had the exact same racist and supremacist attitudes as the europeans they were complaining about.

"The British told us that there are some hundred thousand negroes [kushim in Hebrew] and for those there is no value." - Weizmann, quoted by Arthur Ruppin in: Yosef Heller, Bama'avak Lamedinah , Jerusalem, 1984, p.140.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#373

Post by beepbopboopp »

cm2012 wrote: post #339
zetazzed wrote: post #220

I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to…

One could certainly argue about methods, but on October 8th, what options did Israel have except invasion of Gaza?

This, but further more, there are 100s of comments about "the genocide" here, but almost none about what Israel should do. They have a neighbor who just committed a huge act of terror and whos standing installed political party calls for the elimination of the country. They live in a region where their ethnic group has essentially been wiped out systematically in all neighboring countries.

So, "Stop the genocide" and then what? Build a bigger fence? Wait for the next episode? Im generally interested if anyone has an opinion that goes beyond leave Gaza alone and considers Israelis dilema.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#374

Post by tbrownaw »

coffeemug wrote: post #358
School-Cotton wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is that? How comes it's so selective? The main reason is that Israel is materially supported by the West, so Westerners feel morally responsible for what it does. It has little to do with whether the perpetrators are Jewish or not[1]. There were gigantic protests against the Iraq war, whose main perpetrators (e.g. Bush) were not Jewish. 1: I edited this from "nothing" to "little". I concede it might have someth…

That’s not the reason. Almost certainly people feel a strong reaction, then when asked why it’s selective reach for a plausible answer. “Israel is supported by the west” is plausible.

What's this denial based on? Would you consider "Israel is part of the West" (rather than "supported by") to be more credible (and different enough to distinguish)?

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#375

Post by lanfeust6 »

You have to love the snark in here with "I was able to tell it would go this way from the beginning! I'm enlightened!"

Israel has been provoked and attacked many times. The cautious hope seemed to be a rehash of the previous times there's been strife, that doesn't necessarily mean it was a prediction but it was unclear how long Israel would push this. After the completely kneecapping Hamas some thought they'd be wrapping up. From a self-defense standpoint there just isn't that much more to gain, and they're burning away all the global political goodwill they had.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#376

Post by ivape »

zahlman wrote: post #361
churchill wrote: post #3

Does anyone still need testimonies like these to be convinced that Israel is systematically exterminating the Palestinians using kinetic force and starvation? We're past that point now. Making Gaza unlivable by carpet-bombing the strip, telegraphing mass murder in unambiguous statements at the highest levels of government, dehumanizing the Palestinians and silencing anyone who dares to speak up? I, for one, am thankf…

> I, for one, am thankful this hasn't been taken down like any article remotely critical of Israel. ????? I am generally not at all invested in this conflict and I cede that I have very little information about what is going on, and it's been like that for me for decades. But the information that is available to me, in the current context, from looking at HN, is: pro-Palestine and anti-Israeli sentiments are the norm…

[flagged]

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#377

Post by neom »

Putin, 2005: https://irp.fas.org/news/2005/04/putin042505.html

Xi, 2012 - (中华儿女) - Chinese Dream - https://chinacopyrightandmedia.wordpress.com/2012/11/29/spee...

Netanyahu - 2015 - https://www.wsj.com/articles/netanyahu-makes-final-plea-for-...

These 3 guys have been saying the same thing for a long time now, sometimes quietly, sometimes loudly... we should probably take better note.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#378

Post by s1artibartfast »

IX-103 wrote: post #357
bamboozled wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How can both be true? 1. Israel's 18 year blockade of Gaza is an effective mechanism to prevent weapons coming into Gaza 2. Hamas has been launching rockets into Israel for 18 years

#1 isn't true. Who says it is? Even the Israeli government agrees the blockade failed.

That's the main argument for the current obliteration of gaza.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#379

Post by davkan »

zetazzed wrote: post #220

I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to…

Architects of this tragedy like Anthony Blinken should absolutely not be given the opportunity to whitewash their involvement.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#380

Post by chris_wot »

kn0where wrote: post #239
zetazzed wrote: post #220

I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to…

It’s fine to accept your mom or your neighbor changing their mind, but I think we should be skeptical of politicians changing their mind and consider what hidden, calculated motives they may have for changing it now, when they had plenty of information to reach the same conclusion over a year ago.

I think when a politician takes a principled stance, we should applaud them and encourage them to continue on this path.
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