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Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

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Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#371

Post by toomuchtodo »

lurk2 wrote: post #169
toomuchtodo wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is a legitimate argument to make in a cruel, uncaring (most of the time) world. Lots of regretful parents out there who would take it back if they could. All life is temporary. Quality of life for all involved is a material consideration.

> Yes, that is a legitimate argument to make in a cruel, uncaring (most of the time) world. No, it isn’t. “I wish you didn’t exist because your existence inconveniences me,” is a step away from “I should be able to kill you because you inconvenience me.” You will likely think that I am being hyperbolic (“We’re just talking about if it was a good idea for these people to exist, not saying we should be able to kill the…

I do feel the same way of my existence being discussed this way. Would anything be different had I not existed? No, besides my brief life experience and interactions I’ve had with other humans not occurring. I wouldn’t have even known I never existed. Is that good or bad? Right or wrong? No, it just is.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#372

Post by gigatree »

advisedwang wrote: post #173
smeej wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many ethicists value the continuation of someone's--anyone's--(literal) life over the continuation of anyone else's life style. I'm not arguing whether you should or shouldn't agree with them, nor saying anything about in which cases. It's just one of the primary things going on in the minds of those people, and you said you wondered.

Down screening is done at like 16 weeks. At 16 weeks that's hardly a life. Also you are being very dismissive by hand-waving away lifestyle. Quality of life is a significant factor in medical decisions. Many people choose short high-qol lives over longer low-qol lives.

Ehh, if you actually look up what a 16 week fetus looks like and is capable of you wouldn’t say that. It has eyes, ears, hands that open and close. Basically an avocado-sized baby.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#373

Post by potato3732842 »

go_elmo wrote: post #353
cornholio wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Youre right, its a though question. Then again free will and the concept of "self" is an illusion. Lets see where the world will go in this regard, only time will tell

>Then again free will and the concept of "self" is an illusion.

You don't need to follow this line of thinking very far to justify a hell of a lot of evil.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#374

Post by 542354234235 »

kaonwarb wrote: post #22
jojobas wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such that doesn't see you infertile and dead by 30.

>Today, the average life expectancy of a person with Down syndrome is nearly 60 years and continuing to climb. ( https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/family-resources-educati... )

Life expectancy is 58 "in the 2010s" [1], which is over 19 lower than average life expectancy in the same time period. Two decades isn't exactly insignificant.

[1] https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/adults-with-down-synd...

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#375

Post by bpt3 »

potato3732842 wrote: post #368
Thorrez wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most communist countries haven't been such a utopia as you describe. >He told his fellow Russians in his entourage that if their people, who often must wait in line for most goods, saw the conditions of U.S. supermarkets, "there would be a revolution." https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When...

You know, for all their ills at least the historical communists meant well. Sure, some of them were pretty f-ing brutal but at least they tried to make their societies better, tried to make their countrymen richer and more prosperous. The comparable people today telling us we have have to live under constant surveillance and be subjugated by all powerful governments and government intertwined institutions and organiz…

Who is this imaginary "historical communist" you mentioned?

You're claiming Mao killing millions with idiotic policies (not to mention all the scapegoats he killed intentionally) was okay because he was "trying"?

Or are you talking about Stalin, Lenin, or Castro?

Who is telling you that you "have to live under constant surveillance" and so on?

You'd rather have someone run the country into the ground while lying to you about than intentions (which you're gullible enough to believe apparently, for better or worse) than not?

I have no idea what is happening in our schools these days, but obviously something is lacking.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#376

Post by SamPatt »

creakingstairs wrote: post #56
mathgeek wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyday I passed by the bus stop she would be dancing her heart out to a Britney track waiting for the bus and it made my world a little brighter. As someone who absolutely loves to "be weird", I often wish the world was so much friendlier to folks like this (other than in a token manner).

Is it just me or do I feel like the society is way more accepting nowadays? I had to pretty much hide who I was during school due to fear of bullying/ not fitting in but most kids these days seem to be able to be themselves in many ways. I agree we can be friendlier though!

I have two teenagers, and bullying is still extremely common in school.

Perhaps the range of acceptable weirdness has broadened, I'm not sure, but it's discouraging to hear their stories of just how mean kids can be.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#377

Post by Adverblessly »

somenameforme wrote: post #180
mathieuh wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn’t just happen. It happened through struggle and its continuation is not guaranteed. Look at all the reactionary movements springing up around the world. This is not an area I believe we can settle on “good enough”.

I think societies somewhat naturally wax and wane on most topics, probably because it seems we're simply unable to maintain a middle ground on anything. We always end up taking things to an extreme which, regardless of what that extreme may be, tends to lead to unpleasant scenarios which causes society to start bouncing back in the opposite direction only to repeat the cycle in the equal but opposite direction some t…

I can't speak to other countries, but here in Israel at least, religion is highly correlated with number of children.

Focusing on jewish women, fertility rates for different levels of religion in 2021-2023:

  Ultra-orthodox                6.48
  Religious                     3.74
  Traditional-religious         2.81
  Traditional, not so religious 2.20
  Not religious, secular        1.96
So naturally over time the religious portion of the population grows.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#378

Post by potato3732842 »

jjj123 wrote: post #197
trhway wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the test is simple - would you like to get Dawn chromosome yourself? Or may be have your children get it? I’m sure the answer is No.

That is not a simple test. Ask any straight person if they’d want to turn gay, the vast majority would say no. My guess is they’d say no if you asked the same question about their children. But I’m gay, and while there are pros and cons to it, I wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world. And I don’t think just because someone else doesn’t want to be me is a reasonable bar for eradication. To be clear, I’m not sayin…

>That is not a simple test. Ask any straight person if they’d want to turn gay, the vast majority would say no. My guess is they’d say no if you asked the same question about their children.

The way you can wildly change the answer to this by changing the age, gender and marital status of the subgroup of straight people you ask is a lot more interesting than the answer itself is.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#379

Post by tmsh »

nkrisc wrote: post #25
juujian wrote: post #5

This is interesting news, for the lack of a better word. I've met more than one person with downs syndrome. They have definitely enriched my life and shown me a different way of looking at the world.

I think there’s a difference between appreciating those among us who have it for their perspective and differences and wishing it upon your child. I admit I was absolutely relieved when pre-natal screening was negative for it, both times. But if that was the hand we were dealt, then I’d take it. But that doesn’t mean I want it.

I agree on the surface. But where do we draw the line of choosing what we think (in our very limited human understanding of future events) is better for a child? Soon it’s GATTACA. As an extreme counter example consider if you could choose the race of a child. Or their melatonin levels. You might think one is “easier” for the child or even “better” for a happy life or something, but then at what point do you have that “right”?

I’m very pro-science but I also feel for the people with downs who are like - what? They’re going to end everyone like me in the future?

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