Live data from Hacker News

Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

freyaindia.co.uk

371–380 of 537 posts

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#371
post #226

Decades ago in my first abnormal psych course, the prof warned us that there was an almost iron-clad law that students will immediately start self diagnosing themselves with “weak” versions of every disorder we learn about. In my years since then, it has absolutely held true and now is supercharged by a whole industry of TikTok self-diagnoses. But there are a few things we can learn from this: - if you give people th…

The word “disorder” is loaded, but it is interesting to also look through the lens of the Social Theory of Disability. For the rise in diagnoses for autism, ADD, gender dysphoria, eating disorders such as anorexia nervosa, bulimia etc. Just as we now view the historical labeling of women as suffering from “hysteria” as a systemic failure, not a personal pathology, we should interrogate whether current diagnostic regi…

> Generations identifying as trans:

Is this surprising? 20 years ago in many parts of the world the only way to survive as a trans person was through prostitution. You would be forced to live as an outcast, far away from "normal people". There were barely any legal protections, you could often not change your legal sex, finding any information about what this is or its treatments (not a fetish, something that millions experience, can't be "converted away", hormones exist, etc) was nearly impossible. Most people would see you as a freak.

> A lot of it has to do not with the label itself but with the industry. Where someone in the past would be called a “tomboy” or “femboy” today they would have a different diagnosis, the DSM-5 would be consulted, etc.

This is not true. Trans people don't go to a doctor and ask them if they are trans. Rather trans people generally arrive at the realization of what they are by themselves, usually before seeking any professional help about it. The DSM is not consulted (and if it is, it's done post-facto by someone acting as a gatekeeper and trying to fill boxes).

Many people who called themselves femboys in the past ended up transitioning after becoming more informed about the whole topic and realizing that transitioning their sex and living as their true self is an option rather than something they had to do in secret.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#372
This is the same mental mechanism that makes me hate (pseudoscience) personality tests. Many of my friends that use them fall for similar trap of "labeling" themselves.

When those labels aren't informative or accurate at all, it ends up becoming a chain rather than liberation. "Oh Im MBTI-4acronym, according to that personality test, I'm an introvert so I should skip this public event!".

We are inherently complex and multi-label, even with the worst simplifications. That's confusing and frightening to many, so we seek an "oracle", authority, that can tell us who we are. Problem arise when those are false prophecies.

And they are almost always false. (to varying degrees) Social media mental diagnosis is exactly the same. And crucially they're very wrong over time [1]. So it end up as a shackle to stunt their growth. It completely stops the trail&error process, exposure, and creates a self reinforcing cycle so the label becomes deeply rooted as an identity. There's really no substitute for "trying out yourself to see what works for you, and make sure your trials are set up so you can learn something from it" when it comes to self discovery.

I wish psychology was a bit more scrutinized field. The amount of popscience garbage they give out, and how many people use these model to judge and limit themselves in their life is so sad to see. Probably one of the primary reasons I would keep social media far away from kids (if I had any).

[1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/give-and-take/201309...

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#373
post #187

Decades ago in my first abnormal psych course, the prof warned us that there was an almost iron-clad law that students will immediately start self diagnosing themselves with “weak” versions of every disorder we learn about. In my years since then, it has absolutely held true and now is supercharged by a whole industry of TikTok self-diagnoses. But there are a few things we can learn from this: - if you give people th…

> But there are a few things we can learn from this: > - if you give people the chance to place a label on themselves that makes them feel unique, they’ll take it. This is almost the opposite of what we can learn about this, and the article does a great job at pointing that out. It's a very recent social phenomenon. Yes, that contradicts your abnornal psych class, but think about it. 20 years ago (in 2005), did anyon…

They're doing it now because it gives them power and social status now.

The same story has been repeated dozens of times; An individual is bullied/ostracized for some hobby or characteristic, years later they find the same bullies now going all in said hobbies and characteristics.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#374
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he was being sarcastic. But on the internet you can't really tell. Adopt absurdism. Nothing really matters and it's grotesquely hilarious at the same time. That might cheer you up. Occasionally.

Not sarcastic. Only people who are ignorant about history believe that things are really bad today. If you live in an industrialized country that isn't in the middle of a shooting war then things are objectively pretty awesome compared to the average conditions that humans have endured.

Only ignorant people think individuals can find comfort in averages.

Recently I heard Neil Degrasse Tyson saying that people came up with averages more recently than with calculus. It's not something people find relevant naturally.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#375
I'm a bit dual about this thing. I see it around social media and in people talking. I got diagnosed almost two years ago, and it has been a relief in a way because it finally explained a lot of the struggles I had, helped being less blameful about myself and learn physiological keys around how I am and why. At the same time, I really don't think it would have helped me knowing this much earlier in my childhood, and sometimes the tentation to use this as an "excuse" is strong like described in the article.

I wouldn't wish an earlier diagnostic to my kids, and try to approach things with an empathic approach instead.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#376

Decades ago in my first abnormal psych course, the prof warned us that there was an almost iron-clad law that students will immediately start self diagnosing themselves with “weak” versions of every disorder we learn about. In my years since then, it has absolutely held true and now is supercharged by a whole industry of TikTok self-diagnoses. But there are a few things we can learn from this: - if you give people th…

At least as of one decade ago psych professors still give that warning. I remember being warned not to do that in psych 102. It's always bothered me a little that everyone seems to completely ignore it.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - if you give people the chance to place a label on themselves to give a name/form to a problem, they’ll take it. This one is widespread among the young people I’ve worked with recently. It’s remarkable how I can identify the current TikTok self diagnosis trends without ever watching TikTok. There’s a widespread belief that once you put a label on a problem, other people are not allowed to criticize you for it. Man…

This parallels the debate about free will and determinism. If you were in the determinist camp, believing that all that one does was predetermined by prior environmental causes, could you still hold people responsible for their actions? Hobart makes a convincing argument that you can: "Fatalism says that my morrow is determined no matter how I struggle. This is of course a superstition. Determinism says that my morro…

I am interested in this topic, but I do sometimes find the compatiblism argument difficult to distill down to its essence without still leaving a sense of unfulfillment.

From my understanding, compatibilism boils down to accepting that everything may be pre-determined, but people are still free to make choices as long as they are uncoerced.

The argument from that quote above is a little bit subtler and aligns with my thinking. I don't believe we have free will in any sense, either everything is pre-determined, or it is random, and I can't even think of a definition of free will that would make sense (just like the compatiblism one does not to me). But clearly there is a feedback loop going on, and so it is inherently in the species best interest to hold people accountable for their actions, because the act of holding them accountable forms part of the inputs that lead people to make choices. Not doing this is not a great survivability trait overall. Doing so, we survive a bit more.

But I'm not sure that is strictly necessary to call oneself a compatibilist.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, though possibly for different reasons. Those support systems may or may not be weaker than they were in generations past, but they are certainly more likely to say "I can't help you, go get professional help" than in the past. In some ways this is a good thing. It is good if bipolar people get the medication they need faster, and can start living their best lives. But as someone who almost died to depression…

Yeah, calling depression a "disorder" sometimes misses the point entirely when despair is a logical response to how things are

I know where you're coming from, but despair is never the logical response. Whatever the situation is, it's better to do something about it, even if it's just to rage and call for help, rather than to quietly despair.

Regardless of how bad things are, we still have hope, both as individuals and as a civilization.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#379
Unfortunately (but given the slant of all her other articles, most likely intentionally), the author suffers from one major oversight:

The absence of labels is just as much of a marketing gimmick as their presence. Even anti-identitarianism will be weaponized. Even nothing is something. Eliminate all the labels and concepts and redundancies, and you are yet left with a "natural, unspoken, normal default" state of being.

And as it turns out, there are plenty of forces out there willing to exploit that appeal towards the "the unspoken", for either financial or political gain. The question remains, then: who or what gets to determine this unspoken part of life?

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except they weren't really "support systems" i mean they were, if you got lucky. If you were neurotypical; if you bought in to the local religious sect's particular flavour and embraced it wholeheartedly; if you followed the other local cults of sports fandoms; if you were lucky enough to either have family without their own trauma that didn't take it out on you OR decided to repress it in exactly the same way that t…

I agree with everything you said except for the last paragraph. The people who, according to your theory, want to reverse the tolerance trend and slide towards fascism/authoritarianism didn't pop out today. They existed and lived in society in the 2010s too. So, from a logical standpoint, what changed?

Material conditions degrading further with no end in sight, a massive influx of money towards right-wing populists appealing to a frustrated middle class, etc. Same story as always. How can a country slide into authoritarianism? It seems impossible until it happens, and by then we can hardly tell we're there.
Post reply on HN