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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#371

Post by mxfh »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #328
whatevaa wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are disappearing in europe too. Emissions and other required by law equipment costs just as much on cheap car as it does on expensive one. At some point, cheap cars stop beinf cheap, just a bit cheaper but with way worse quality, so they stop making sense.

It's true that affordable European models are disappearing. The average mid-range offering from, say, Volkswagen, has become quite surprisingly expensive. But this is why Chinese cars are taking over in Europe. Half the new cars I see are from Geely, BYD, Chery, etc. These average about 20,000-25,000 EUR new. My own opinion, having looked into the matter a bit, is that you'd have to be insane to buy a Volkswagen or B…

Just because they are not heavily advertised, doesnt mean they don't exist.

Dacia Sandero/Duster/Spring exist. (Renault)

Citroen C1, Toyota Aygo, Peugeot 108, (VW up!.)

Considering Volkswagen Group:

With a choice of Skoda Fabia/Seat Ibiza/VW Polo you would go for Skoda or Seat, not the VW brand itself if you dont care about marque but price.

But prestige is a huge factor still, so people would still go for an overpriced Golf for no apparent other reason

Also 20k-equivalent from 2015-2019 is already above 25k just by inflation. Car manufactures have strong unions so that stuff comes around fast.

So you simply can't expect the old sub 20k cars anymore, that's 25k now.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#372

Post by holowoodman »

leansensei wrote: post #359
gmac wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I think SEAT are the pick of the VAG brands. Their marketing isn't about being cheap, but they're aimed at the youngest market segment, who also have the least money, so in my experience have the best prices. Pre-COVID we got a new Leon ST — essentially a Golf estate/station wagon — for about a third off the list price: £13K instead of £20K (I know: those prices sound semi-mythical now). On the other end you hav…

That's the VAG marketing strategy. Share most parts, have the customer pay for the brand.

With VAG, at least everyone knows the deal.

E.g. Mercedes uses Renault engines in the less-fancy models, but most customers are kept in the dark about that.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#373

Post by rsynnott »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #34
999900000999 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the man, I’ll admit in my early twenties I meet a few partners by being car free. I legit took a girl home after I asked her if she knew why the train was late. In Amsterdam at least one of the train stations has a piano. It becomes a 3rd place were people can make friends and socialize. We don’t have many 3rd places in the US where you can exist without spending money.

Do you have example of places with density similar to US where public transport works well? Australia has some in urban centres, but otherwise car centric. Same in NZ. Elecric bus to my place costs 8x more than driving EV (before it was taxed)

California has only a slightly lower population density than France. France has 27,000km of operating passenger rail tracks, California 2,600km (similar to Ireland, a country of 5 million people not noted for its public transport, with a lower population density than California).

This is a weird form of American exceptionalism where people insist that the US can't have the nice things that all other rich countries have, because Density. And this might even be true if you're talking about, say, Wyoming. But it absolutely isn't an excuse for places like California or Florida.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#374

Post by names_are_hard »

amelius wrote: post #368
rmnwski wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, the more SUVs are driven, the less safe people feel (and arguably are), accelerating the need to buy an SUV for safety reasons.

On the other hand, if you kill someone in a traffic accident, you feel shit the rest of your life.

This is true. On the other hand, if you get killed in a car accident... You also feel shit the rest of your life.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#376

Post by OtherShrezzing »

epolanski wrote: post #306
puzzlingcaptcha wrote: post #261

You can still buy a new subcompact car (like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia) in Europe for under 20k EUR. The more interesting question is why these cars disappeared in the US. And while many of the factors discussed here are true for both EU and US (inflation, interest rates, manufacturer profit margins etc) I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-ro…

> like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia Few caveats: - those are generally promotional prices - those prices are generally tied to financing (you really can't buy it cash at those prices, you need to finance it through them at crazy 7/8%+ rates) - you can wait for the car even 10 months

> those prices are generally tied to financing (you really can't buy it cash at those prices, you need to finance it through them at crazy 7/8%+ rates)

I can't talk for the rest of the continent, but in the UK we've got "price on the road" advertising laws here. So if you turn up to a dealership with £20k and ask for a new car that's advertised at £20k, you'll be sold a car for £20k in cash. The dealer might try to up-sell you for financing, but you can just say "I'm paying in cash, and I don't want any extras", and they'll complete the payment & paperwork in record time so that they're able to move onto a more profitable financed sale elsewhere.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#377

Post by rsynnott »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #127
Gigachad wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia kind of gives you the choice. The inner city areas have great PT, great public spaces and some awesome outdoor walkable retail/food streets. But then you've also got the outer suburbs which is a hellscape similar to the US. It's also not that expensive to rent inner city or buy an apartment. The outer suburbs mostly exist because people have a mentality of invest in land at any cost, even if it means living…

ChatGPT says it's either only 5.6% or 27% (which is pretty good) for Sydney.

Which tells you that ChatGPT is essentially useless.

Like, why post this? The difference between the two figures is so vast as to be pointless, and it likely just made them up anyway. This is something that you can actually look up.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#378

Post by amelius »

names_are_hard wrote: post #374
amelius wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, if you kill someone in a traffic accident, you feel shit the rest of your life.

This is true. On the other hand, if you get killed in a car accident... You also feel shit the rest of your life.

But at least you didn't waste $ on a big car.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#379

Post by rsynnott »

jmyeet wrote: post #253

In 2080, Apple introduced the Macbook Air. The first version was a mixed bag. The 2010 revision was a game-changer. Competitors just couldn't compete with the hardware you got for $1200 (13"). It was an excellentcompromise between power, weight, efficiency and price. This lasted years. After awhile, 4GB of RAM was light and a non-Retina display was somewhat lacking but it was still good. A $1000 laptop is almost disp…

> But this created a problem for Apple: it was too cheap. About a decade ago, the cult of thinness took over. The Air was replaced by the 12" Macbook that was too underpowered. It only had 1 port, which doubled as a power connector.

The 12" MacBook did _not_ replace the Air; it was a niche within a niche. The Air continues to be Apple's best-selling laptop, and starts at $999 (the $1200 price you give in 2010 is equivalent to about $1800 adjusted for inflation).

(In retrospect the 12" MacBook seems like a clear mistake, but at the time there was a bit of a bubble in subnotebooks, and Intel was making lavish promises for its ultra-low-power chip lines which turned out to be nonsense.)

> We got the (awful) butterfly keyboard. And of course we got the Touch Bar.

Only in the expensive laptops; the Air continued to be the cheap option.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#380

Post by ReptileMan »

neogodless wrote: post #117
briandw wrote: post #70

They don't mention the amount of mandatory additions to the car from government regulations. Obviously not the only factor but it's certainly a factor. Cars now have 6 to 8 airbags, backup cameras, more high strength steel, automatic breaking systems etc etc. I love the safety that those all bring, but it's not free.

> automatic breaking systems Literal planned obsolescence !

Or just being BMW. They also break automatically. No need for government mandated feature.
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