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Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

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Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#371

Post by sebstefan »

franga2000 wrote: post #370
brunoborges wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Growing fast" is questionable these days. There is an ever growing percentage of new AI-generated videos among every set of daily uploads. How long until more than half of uploads in a day are AI-generated?

And google is in the best possible position to detect it if they want to exclude it from their datasets.

They're never going to manage to do that, just on a technical level

Plus some users might want to legitimately upload things with AI-generated content in it

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#372

Post by Timon3 »

sebstefan wrote: post #371
franga2000 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And google is in the best possible position to detect it if they want to exclude it from their datasets.

They're never going to manage to do that, just on a technical level Plus some users might want to legitimately upload things with AI-generated content in it

> They're never going to manage to do that, just on a technical level

Why not? Given enough data, it's possible to train models to differentiate - especially since humans can pick up on the difference pretty well.

> Plus some users might want to legitimately upload things with AI-generated content in it

Excluding videos from training datasets doesn't mean excluding them from Youtube.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#373

Post by [deleted] »

rcarr wrote: post #238
julianpye wrote: post #126

An indie film with poor production values, even bad acting can grip you, make you laugh and make you cry. The consistency of quality is key - even if it is poor. The directing is the red thread throughout the scenes. Anything with different quality levels interrupts your flow and breaks your experience. The problem with AI video content at this stage is that the clips are very good 'in themselves', just as LLM result…

You might want to look up NeuralViz on YouTube. 180k subscribers. They've been building out an entire cinematic universe using AI video tools. And it's by far the funniest show I've watched in years. So the claim that "let you engage beyond an individual clip will not be possible for a long time" isn't true. People are already doing it. https://www.youtube.com/@NeuralViz

[deleted]

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#374

Post by renerick »

jryle70 wrote: post #317
renerick wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely absurd and reductive point of view, which I always assume is a cop out. Just because it's called "machine learning" doesn't mean it actually has anything to do with how human learning or human brain works, and it's certainly not "exactly how" or "very same". There's much more going on on in human creative process, aside from mere "mixing": personal experience, understanding of the creative process,…

> personal experience, understanding of the creative process, technique and style development, subtext, hidden ideas and nuances All of these are just human being exposed more to life and learning new skills, in other words -- having more data. LLM already learns those skills and encounters endless experience of people in its training data. > I hate this argument That's very subjective. You don't know how the brain w…

It's not just more data, it's deeper understanding of the fundamentals, of the idea and of the tools used, as well as the process of creation itself. It's what makes studying art interesting: why did author chose to do this and that, what's their style, what was the process, etc. For LLM the answers will universally be "because it was in the prompt and there was appropriate training data" and "the author prompted the model until the model returned something tolerable". You may argue that not all art has or needs depth, or that not all people are interested in it, but that doesn't mean that we should fill our cultures with empty boring slop.

> That's very subjective

I was expressing my opinion of this argument which absolutely is subjective

> You don't know how the brain works.

Neither does grandparent comment's author, didn't stop them from making much bolder claims.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#375

Post by sensanaty »

rcarr wrote: post #239
alpaca128 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the requirement to use a computer and maybe pay a cloud subscription in the long term more accessible than other kinds of art? Which individuals are gatekept exactly? Before you bring up disabled people (as often happens when the term accessibility is used), know that many of them are not happy to be used as a shield for this without ever being asked and would rather speak for themselves. I've tried AI image g…

Try and tell me that a single individual would have been able to create this 10 years ago on a normal salary: https://www.youtube.com/@NeuralViz It would have cost millions. Now one person can do it with a laptop and a few hundred dollars of credits a month. AI is 100% making filmmaking more accessible to creative people who otherwise would never have access to the kind of funding and networks required to realise the…

Most of those "skits" can be done on a cheap camera with a single person being the actor. In fact, many such videos existed already in the past.

Also, they're painfully unoriginal. They're just grabbing bits that The Onion or shows like Rick & Morty have been doing and putting a revolting AI twist to it. It screams to me of 0 effort slop made for the sole purpose of generating money from morons with no creativity clicking on it and being bemused for 10 seconds

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#376

Post by mrklol »

_ncuy wrote: post #311

Google hit the jackpot with their acquisition of YouTube and it's now paying dividend. YouTube is the largest single source of data and traffic on the Internet, and it's still growing fast. I think this data will prove incredibly important to robotics as well. It's a shame they sold Boston Dynamics in one of their dumbest ever moves because of bad PR.

Why should YouTube be here at the advantage? Every competitor also has access to these videos(?)

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#377

Post by Daub »

As an artist and designer (with admittedly limited AI experience), where I feel AI to be lacking is in its poverty of support for formal descriptors. Content descriptors such as 'dog wearing a hat' are a mostly solved problem. Support for simple formal descriptors such as basic color terms and background/foreground are ok, but things like 'global contrast' (as opposed to foreground background contrast), 'negative shape', 'overlap', 'saturation contrast' etc etc... all these leave the AI models I have played with scratching their heads.

I like how Veo supports camera moves, though I wonder if it clearly recognizes the difference between 'in-camera motion' and 'camera motion' and also things like 'global motion' (e.g. the motion of rain, snow etc).

Obligatory link to Every Frame a Painting, where he talks about motion in Kurosawa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doaQC-S8de8

The abiding issue is that artists (animators, filmmakers etc) have not done an effective job at formalising these attributes or even naming them consistently. Every Frame a Painting does a good job but even he has a tendency to hand wave these attributes.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#379

Post by sensanaty »

teitoklien wrote: post #235
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when pooled at scale between all users allows people to make their own song generators with GPUs. I can assure you, local generation is to become a fringe activity, same as self-hosting web services, only worse, because the quality gap (which in case of software is often negligible) will be insurmountable. > I’d love to hear how you think the big 3 corps (Universal, Sony, etc) who own all the music almost globally…

> but the consequences are the opposite of supporting the diversity and abundance in arts. I made 5 songs about 5 different people in a week, with carefully crafted lyrics and tones described by me in the custom prompt, that led to 10 mp3 files of songs (suno generates 2 songs per prompt) Those songs are out there, it’s different, it’s not sloppy it’s actually quite enjoyable. Now there is more diversity and abundanc…

I'm sorry but that song you posted is the most generic, bland garbage that imitates the literally millions of other pop songs they stole in their training sets. It sounds like Charlie xcx without any of the actual creativity, and the actual track itself you could learn how to make yourself with FL Studio in about half an hour following one of the many tutorials out there.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#380

Post by preommr »

rcarr wrote: post #238
julianpye wrote: post #126

An indie film with poor production values, even bad acting can grip you, make you laugh and make you cry. The consistency of quality is key - even if it is poor. The directing is the red thread throughout the scenes. Anything with different quality levels interrupts your flow and breaks your experience. The problem with AI video content at this stage is that the clips are very good 'in themselves', just as LLM result…

You might want to look up NeuralViz on YouTube. 180k subscribers. They've been building out an entire cinematic universe using AI video tools. And it's by far the funniest show I've watched in years. So the claim that "let you engage beyond an individual clip will not be possible for a long time" isn't true. People are already doing it. https://www.youtube.com/@NeuralViz

> "Lurking, Lifting, Licking"

Ok, I went from being pleasantly surprised to breakout laughter at that point.

But I also think this points out a big problem: high-quality stuff is flying under the radar simply because of how much stuff is out there. I've noticed that when faced with a lot of choice, rather than exploring it, people fall back into popular stuff that they're familiar with in a really sad way. Like a lot of door dash orders will be for McDonalds, or people will go back to watching popular series like Friends, or how Disney keeps remaking movies that people still go to see.

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