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Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

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Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#371

Post by pmyteh »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #357
pmyteh wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the tight loading gauge in Britain, trying to cram two decks in would make it very small. It's been tried (once[0]) and they weren't able to make it fully double-decker, quick to load/unload, or especially comfortable. I agree that they're fine in countries with larger bridges and tunnels -- Amtrak's Superliners are palatial in size -- but not for us. (Except probably for the Channel Tunnel rail link, whic…

I rode double decker trains in the Netheraland, US, Germany and France and they were very good - same space and I would say headroom as a normal train. I was not aware that the UK has a different gauge than Europe and US.

Yes - to a surprising extent. The best diagram I've seen overlays them[0]. The British gauges are the smaller ones starting with W - with W6 being available essentially everywhere and the higher numbers on specially cleared routes to make it easier to move larger freight containers. GA and GB are standard Western European gauges: both taller and wider.

There's a surprising amount of global variation as much of this stuff wasn't standardised until after most railways were built. AIUI that's even true in the US, where the routes in the West can often take double-stacked containers and Amtrak's Superliners, and further East they often can't.

[0]: https://rfg.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Loading-Gauge....

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#372

Post by dmurray »

gbear605 wrote: post #279
phkahler wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you're Russia wanting to invade Europe, it's better to do the Gauge switching right near your own border rather than on the far side of Finland. So while this may make it harder to invade Finland, it makes it easier to invade Europe as a whole.

The far side of Finland? That’s the Baltic Sea. Sure, there’s a little bit of Sweden, but it’s so far north that there isn’t much rail infrastructure there - certainly little enough that it could quickly be destroyed at the beginning of a war.

The stated reason for the gauge change is "to remove technical obstacles to transporting troops and goods between Finland, Sweden and Norway".

Those few connections in the sparse north of the country are the entire point.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#374

Post by crote »

apexalpha wrote: post #248
IAmBroom wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it matter much? Either way, a new railway has to be built (others have pointed out dual-gauge is not workable).

If you have to go from a smaller gauge to a bigger one you most likely have to also expand corridors, buy new land, fix bridges and tunnels etc... While a downshift if usually much esier since a smaller gauge simply fits inside the larger one so all bridges and tunnels are wide enough by definition.

That's mostly an issue with loading gauge, not track gauge. The train is usually significantly wider than the tracks, so width-wise the space should already be available.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#375

Post by badc0ffee »

wbl wrote: post #360
dehrmann wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes it even crazier that Bart would choose a non-standard gauge 75 years later. And now they're stuck paying for custom trains with less flexibility and longer lead times.

BART was always going to need custom trains for other reasons beyond track gauge. Electric third rail at those speeds isn't standard. 125kV pantagraph would mean big expensive tunnels and stations due to clearance requirements.

Electric third rail at 130 km/h? The LIRR does it, with standard gauge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Island_Rail_Road

I also don't know where you're getting 125kV from. Many trains throughout the world use 25kV, especially high-speed ones (actually high speed, like 200+km/h), but BART uses 1000V, which is closer to a typical subway system.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#376

Post by chinathrow »

varsketiz wrote: post #106
indiantinker wrote: post #100

TBH, it seems like a questionable way to spend EU money. Technically, it's fascinating, but unless it's part of a broader geopolitical or long-term interoperability strategy, it's hard to justify the costs. In Spain, we already deal with both Iberian and standard gauges—trains like the Talgo models can change gauges with minimal delay. It's not seamless, but it works reasonably well. Spain also has the world's second…

The goal is defence - to prevent easy russian train logistics deep into Finland.

They might be too late.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#377

Post by crote »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #361

I understand why they do it, but I am curious why there is nobody in this kind of position that is going for something that is better in technical terms, not just compatible. For example, 2 meters or even 2.5m would provide better load capacity and better stability for high speed curves, while keeping the width of the carriages the same in order to fit existing tunnels. For new freight lines even 3 meters may be much…

Because the benefits are negligible.

Freight-wise, better load capacity can also be solved by ballastless track, using additional axles, or running longer trains. Passenger-wise, better stability can also be solved with canting - and wider tracks means significantly larger curves.

In return you get to buy significantly more expensive one-off trains and are unable to connect to your neighbors. Not exactly a great deal, is it?

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#378

Post by thih9 »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #148
dotancohen wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it Austria that has the stands in the airport for tourists who thought they were buying tickets to Australia, or is it the other way around?

I think it's a myth that originated from an ad: https://www.vol.at/2023/11/397526796_1104257417472438_811840... I suppose it's difficult to make that mistake because plane tickets are to cities, not countries as a whole. As a real story, I knew a guy who had a B&B near a beach called San Francisco, in Spain, and he regularly had to cancel bookings from people who thought it was in the US city of the same name, though…

Apparently people confuse cities when flying too, here’s an article about a passenger going to the wrong Sydney, and more examples:

https://simpleflying.com/ameican-airlines-passenger-flies-si...

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#379

Post by wkat4242 »

crote wrote: post #356
Suppafly wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The tolerances are just a bit tighter, the risks and liabilities are higher, and the workforce just isn't "there" Sure, but they do it with big machines that ride down the rails now instead of lining up thousands of men with sledge hammers.

There are no ready-made gauge changing machines, though. Not exactly a big market for those.

Once Spain and Portugal move from Iberian gauge that market will increase a lot. Which is kinda inevitable with the added environmental pressure on flights.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#380

Post by paddy_m »

celticninja wrote: post #253
kranke155 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a debunked post I think.

i dont believe it is.

Trent and a lot of Ukranian war commentators have a habit of saying $X is catastrophic for the Russians (this is the worst on YouTube). Then those catastrophic things don't come to pass.

Related, I have seen one guy, over and over say "Why isn't Ukraine hitting Russian electric train transformer stations". I don't have a good answer, most of Russia's rail network is electric, transformers blow up easily, there are many of them, and they would be very slow to replace. Ukraine clearly has deep strike capabilities, and Russia cant defend every transformer. I don't think it's a humanitarian issue, or at this point even an issue with the US telling Ukraine they can't hit those targets.

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