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Material 3 Expressive

design.google

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Re: Material 3 Expressive

#371

Post by dcre »

eastbound wrote: post #313
dcre wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you render an in React (or Angular, which I think they're using here), it's just an ! You have to do extra work to fuck it up!

It doesn’t do the internal navigation. And since React doesn’t have built-in support for pushState (Yes I know React Router, but it really wants a hash router), you really need extra work for an internal router. And therefore, every beginner dev does it manually and slightly inconsistently. So yes, React is absolutely the driver, same as Java is guilty for Guava existing, because it should have been built-in and perf…

In this case we are not talking about beginner devs (to their credit, the React docs are pushing people toward frameworks now) — these are literally the developers of a framework, fucking it up in their own docs!

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#372

Post by iamdelirium »

sksrbWgbfK wrote: post #172
dgimla20 wrote: post #37

Material Design v1 cracked it. It was simple to implement, simple to understand and simple to use. Minimal overheads with a clear content-first approach. "It's time to move beyond “clean” and “boring” designs to create interfaces that connect with people on an emotional level." I don't want websites and apps to connect with me on an emotional level. I want to turn my phone/computer on, use the app/program to achieve…

I had the same reaction when they said that "younger study participants had the most enthusiastic preference for M3 Expressive." Could it be that young people are most likely to be impressed by pretty bullshit, and the whole point of this redesign is futile?

Insert Principle Skinner: "Am I out of touch? No, its the young people that are wrong".

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#373

Post by Groxx »

wisty wrote: post #225
jamalaramala wrote: post #191

Oh my god, this is ugly as fuck. It reminds me a study about the perception of beauty among students of arts. Before they start their studies, their perception of beauty is similar to everyone's. But as they go through their course, their perception starts to shift. What they see as "beautiful" doesn't match the perception of others. They learn what "skeuomorphism" is, and suddenly everything must be flat and undiffe…

I think it's actually less flat, with more affordances (though not quite skeuomorphic). Basically "oops we made it too flat, let's make those buttons big and colourful so people can see them again". It's a step forward after two steps back.

It's worth comparing to where it came from: https://m1.material.io/

v3 is flatter than the flat design that v1 was a reaction against because it had such bad affordances.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#374

Post by rpcope1 »

I am asking this honestly: is this some sort of April Fool's joke, just a month and a half late? Between absolutely abhorrent performance on what should be a nearly state of the art desktop, and generally being jarring to look at and not particularly readable, how did they think this was a good idea?

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#375

Post by marcusb »

pico303 wrote: post #353
marcusb wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a couple of customers that deployed 7 endpoint security tools of the "hook into processes and inspect everything" variety. The exact mix was customer-specific, but if you're wondering what that looks like: * Stand-alone "best of breed" endpoint DLP * Stand-alone "best of breed" EDR * Process whitelisting tool * NAC posture assessment agent * Three different AV agents This is not even counting their VPN client(s…

And after all that, your company gets hacked through a misconfigured router.

Or one of the seven endpoint agents, each of which has a kernel module and at least half of which are doing dodgy process injection and read process memory shenanigans.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#376

Post by dash2 »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #67

I genuinely would not hire an ex-Google designer for my startup. These metrics are so nonsensical: > We found a 32% increase in subculture perception, which indicates that expressive design makes a brand feel more relevant and “in-the-know.” Show me metrics that move something tangible, like conversion rates. If you can't do that, we both know why.

> We also saw a 34% boost in modernity, making a brand feel fresh and forward-thinking. On top of that, there was a 30% jump in rebelliousness, suggesting that expressive design positions a brand as bold, innovative, and willing to break from convention.

Beyond parody.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#377

Post by roskelld »

AbraKdabra wrote: post #350
bflesch wrote: post #120

How did these clowns manage to make my mouse cursor laggy? It is incomprehensible for me to live in such a big bubble with such a big paycheck and then spend zero brainpower on systems without graphics acceleration. This is extremely bad engineering and these engineers should be called out for it. It takes a special kind of person to deliver this and be proud of it. Once they made their millions at Google these engin…

If you try to move the mouse while scrolling the cursor freezes... jfc bring back 2010's Google.

Wow, yeah just tested that and it's really bad. I guess it's a strange thing to do, but a good way to test how the cursor hijacking code gets stalled when scroll is active, and I'm guessing they're doing UI updates on scroll so the thread is getting thrashed there.

Even just making a circle motion with a mouse produces a lot of stuttering. I just did the same action on HN and it's as smooth as you'd expect on a CPU from 1995 and beyond.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#378

Post by thewebguyd »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #231

Google has to solve having a green bubble if they want any penetration into the "hip" young crowd. I honestly think the only way they could see gains is with a well executed counter-culture statement. They are foolishly spinning their wheels going after the young iOS crowd, while alienating the people who actually buy pixel phones and on some level android, phones. (I know this comment is very US centric)

> I honestly think the only way they could see gains is with a well executed counter-culture statement. They are foolishly spinning their wheels going after the young iOS crowd, while alienating the people who actually buy pixel phones and on some level android, phones.

I think a well executed counter-culture statement would do well for them. Make the move Apple did with their 1984 commercial. Also double down on openness, freedom, etc.

The other problem Google/Android has with penetrating the "hip" young crowd (in the US) aside from iMessage is there's no Android brand like Apple has. There's pixel, but it's such a small market share. Most people it's a choice between iPhone or Samsung, not iOS or Android. The fact that Samsung has their own skin too means this new material UI will only apply to people on Pixels or other stock-like phones, of which there are fewer and fewer flagships for each year.

Outside of that though, Android has an app quality problem as well. I use the McDonalds app as an example - every upgrade cycle I get curious about Android and try daily driving a pixel for the return period before inevitably ending back up on iPhone. My last run with the Pixel 9 pro, the android version of apps were horrible. Performance was so bad. The McDonalds app took full seconds to navigate between panes where it was instant on iOS, my banking app was equally horrible on Android. The watch wasn't great either.

Google could have a slam dunk if they focused on the right things, but they just always keep missing the mark.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#379

Post by recursive »

kllrnohj wrote: post #369
bflesch wrote: post #120

How did these clowns manage to make my mouse cursor laggy? It is incomprehensible for me to live in such a big bubble with such a big paycheck and then spend zero brainpower on systems without graphics acceleration. This is extremely bad engineering and these engineers should be called out for it. It takes a special kind of person to deliver this and be proud of it. Once they made their millions at Google these engin…

The mouse cursor / general performance complaint is valid but: > spend zero brainpower on systems without graphics acceleration. These systems don't exist unless you go out of your way to turn off graphics acceleration. In which case that's kinda on you. It's like ranting about sites requiring javascript. It's just not a realistic expectation to have of anything anymore.

> In which case that's kinda on you.

What if I turned it off because it makes my machine more stable? Why do I have to choose between crashing and jank?

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#380

Post by bmicraft »

bflesch wrote: post #120

How did these clowns manage to make my mouse cursor laggy? It is incomprehensible for me to live in such a big bubble with such a big paycheck and then spend zero brainpower on systems without graphics acceleration. This is extremely bad engineering and these engineers should be called out for it. It takes a special kind of person to deliver this and be proud of it. Once they made their millions at Google these engin…

Firefox on a mid-range Android phone here and this page didn't even feel particularly heavy to me. Everything loaded before scrolling into view and no stuttering while scrolling whatsoever.
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