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Buffett to step down following six-decade run atop Berkshire

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Re: Buffett to step down following six-decade run atop Berkshire

#371

Post by mullingitover »

postpawl wrote: post #299
danielmarkbruce wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that companies should just agree to whatever proposal comes in from a union is preposterous.

They were negotiating their way up from zero paid sick days per year.

IIRC they had PTO days which were apportioned pretty generously, but they didn't have sick days broken out separately. This doesn't mean they had less time off in general than the prevailing compensation packages. It was a great talking point for the media. However, TBH having a 'here's a bunch of time off, do what you need to with it' is kinda better than 'here's some time off for you to vacation, but then this other amount is only usable if you're sick, and if you're not sick it's money left on the table.'

Re: Buffett to step down following six-decade run atop Berkshire

#372

Post by TFYS »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #368
sofixa wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When a company loses money year after year it goes bankrupt. The company disappears. The workers lose their jobs. If the company operates in such razor thin margins that it can't provide for sick leave for employees, something is terribly wrong. > It is important for a company to earn a profit. You'll find companies like google and facebook, who are making fat profits.... pay fat salaries to their workers And you'l…

It's called competition - it's the reason you get to sit there and type away on an incredible machine at a very low cost and eat food at a very low cost... The vast majority of businesses are operating on thin margins. Get in the real world, not some fantasy land.

Competition is not the reason. The reason is workers choosing to improve things, invent things and make things more efficient. Competition is a way to incentivize people to do that, but it's not the only way.

Re: Buffett to step down following six-decade run atop Berkshire

#373

Post by hhghkj »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #359
postpawl wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were negotiating their way up from zero paid sick days per year.

Compensation packages are just that - a package. Complaining about one individual component in isolation is disingenuous. Unions sent a couple of the big car makers into bankruptcy. They've sent all kinds of companies into bankruptcy - the idea that anything they are suggesting is good by nature is about the same as suggesting communism is good by nature. Sounds pleasant, doesn't work.

Businesses that can't stay afloat without underpaying workers have a failing business model. Blaming unions for their eventual demise is foolish.

Communism and Capitalism are actually quite similar in a sense. Neither of them works well in their purest form, both lead to formation of an oligarchy (party elite,billionaires). Most livable countries in the world mix them in form of free market social democracy.

Re: Buffett to step down following six-decade run atop Berkshire

#374

Post by JumpCrisscross »

arrosenberg wrote: post #234
karaterobot wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not clear how this represents him not being pragmatic, could you say more?

Deteriorating conditions for the working class are the main driver of our push toward authoritarian government. A pragmatist would have been more sympathetic for reasons beyond pure capitalist economics.

> Deteriorating conditions for the working class are the main driver of our push toward authoritarian government

I don’t buy this anymore. The evidence is for a simpler hypothesis: 20 to 30% of Americans are stupid. They vote against their own economic interests, which doesn’t make sense if wealth is the problem. My personal hypothesis is lead exposure. But further empowering that segment with wealth strikes me as counterproductive.

Re: Buffett to step down following six-decade run atop Berkshire

#375

Post by hhghkj »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #368
sofixa wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When a company loses money year after year it goes bankrupt. The company disappears. The workers lose their jobs. If the company operates in such razor thin margins that it can't provide for sick leave for employees, something is terribly wrong. > It is important for a company to earn a profit. You'll find companies like google and facebook, who are making fat profits.... pay fat salaries to their workers And you'l…

It's called competition - it's the reason you get to sit there and type away on an incredible machine at a very low cost and eat food at a very low cost... The vast majority of businesses are operating on thin margins. Get in the real world, not some fantasy land.

The vast majority of companies can afford sick days for their workers. It's even good for morale, job satisfaction and performance.

Ones that choose not to treat their workers with basic dignity are badly managed.

Re: Buffett to step down following six-decade run atop Berkshire

#376

Post by hhghkj »

arrosenberg wrote: post #234
karaterobot wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not clear how this represents him not being pragmatic, could you say more?

Deteriorating conditions for the working class are the main driver of our push toward authoritarian government. A pragmatist would have been more sympathetic for reasons beyond pure capitalist economics.

Bad education system and social media contribute too. Manipulating the masses has never been as easy and cheap as it is now. Russia in particular knows how to do it in scale.

Re: Buffett to step down following six-decade run atop Berkshire

#377

Post by mullingitover »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #359
postpawl wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were negotiating their way up from zero paid sick days per year.

Compensation packages are just that - a package. Complaining about one individual component in isolation is disingenuous. Unions sent a couple of the big car makers into bankruptcy. They've sent all kinds of companies into bankruptcy - the idea that anything they are suggesting is good by nature is about the same as suggesting communism is good by nature. Sounds pleasant, doesn't work.

> Unions sent a couple of the big car makers into bankruptcy.

It goes both ways, unfortunately. Industry in general couldn't exist without laborers, and it has a long history of brutal abuse and horrific, dangerous working conditions that killed and maimed many.

I think it's a cultural problem. We aren't far removed from a time when the general business model was to coercively work people to death to extract every penny of value from them, and that mindset hasn't completely been lost. Workers are callously discarded, not at the doorstep of bankruptcy, but at the first hint that profits might not grow as fast as they could.

Re: Buffett to step down following six-decade run atop Berkshire

#378

Post by arrosenberg »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #374
arrosenberg wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deteriorating conditions for the working class are the main driver of our push toward authoritarian government. A pragmatist would have been more sympathetic for reasons beyond pure capitalist economics.

> Deteriorating conditions for the working class are the main driver of our push toward authoritarian government I don’t buy this anymore. The evidence is for a simpler hypothesis: 20 to 30% of Americans are stupid. They vote against their own economic interests, which doesn’t make sense if wealth is the problem. My personal hypothesis is lead exposure. But further empowering that segment with wealth strikes me as co…

Doesn't explain it at all. The biggest swing from 2020 to 2024 was people under 45 voting for Trump at a much higher rate, mostly driven by men. Anyone under 45 was born at least 5 years after lead gas was banned in cars. They're mad because they don’t see a path to the future they were promised. Calling them stupid is patronizing and counterproductive, even if true.

Re: Buffett to step down following six-decade run atop Berkshire

#379

Post by JumpCrisscross »

arrosenberg wrote: post #378
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Deteriorating conditions for the working class are the main driver of our push toward authoritarian government I don’t buy this anymore. The evidence is for a simpler hypothesis: 20 to 30% of Americans are stupid. They vote against their own economic interests, which doesn’t make sense if wealth is the problem. My personal hypothesis is lead exposure. But further empowering that segment with wealth strikes me as co…

Doesn't explain it at all. The biggest swing from 2020 to 2024 was people under 45 voting for Trump at a much higher rate, mostly driven by men. Anyone under 45 was born at least 5 years after lead gas was banned in cars. They're mad because they don’t see a path to the future they were promised. Calling them stupid is patronizing and counterproductive, even if true.

I’m not saying all Trump voters are stupid. Just that there is a stupid subset that are not rationally motivated. It’s productive to call this out, because I think it requires reworking our political system to deal with their threat. Fortunately, MAGA seems eager to set the precedents we’ll need in the future. (It’s also not patronising because I don’t care what they do as much as that they don’t cause problems for other people. That’s defensive more than patronising.)

Re: Buffett to step down following six-decade run atop Berkshire

#380

Post by ethbr1 »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #360
sofixa wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that profits are more important than basic humanity is preposterous. The unions wanted sick leave, because under the current system, employees were scheduled weeks in advance with zero margin. If the employee was sick, they had to ask for PTO which would get denied because of lack of notice and any margin (other employees to cover the job)

When a company loses money year after year it goes bankrupt. The company disappears. The workers lose their jobs. It is important for a company to earn a profit. You'll find companies like google and facebook, who are making fat profits.... pay fat salaries to their workers.

> You'll find companies like google and facebook, who are making fat profits.... pay fat salaries to their workers.

And here I was, under the impression that both Google and Facebook paid their moderators as little as possible.

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