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Don't force your kids to do math

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Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#371

Post by apwell23 »

r0fl wrote: post #222
rerdavies wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really important thing is to teach kids to find their joy. At the end of my second year of piano lessons, my teacher took me into her living room, and we listened to Glen Miller records for most of the hour. And then we had a cup of tea, and she told me, "this is the music that I love. I play piano because I love that music, and I want to be able to play it myself. What kind of music do you like?" I didn't really…

“Joy” is not found in a day. People enjoy doing things they are good at. It takes a long time to get good at some things and those days suck.

i found joy in skiing the very first time i tried it in my mid 30s. been skiing every season since that day for 40+ days minimum.

same with coding. instantly loved it and choose it as my career. still enjoy it today.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#372

Post by j45 »

toast0 wrote: post #311
bethekidyouwant wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why does a child need to break through a plateau at anything? Of my five sample size of five, expose them and support them, some things can’t even hook you until your brain grows enough .. The musical one is in a band now the nerdy one likes inhaling solder. I did force both boys to Hockey but just to have passable skills so that he can enjoy that all that comes with the sport as an adult

> why does a child need to break through a plateau at anything? Learning that they can hit a plateau and move beyond it with concerted effort is super important. After you've done it once, you can look back on that experience for inspiration when there's a plateau that you want/need to move beyond. Having experience with struggling with something that is easy for some others is important too. Some kids are just natur…

A child doesn't but a child carries it forward into adulthood.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#373

Post by scotty79 »

r0fl wrote: post #222
rerdavies wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really important thing is to teach kids to find their joy. At the end of my second year of piano lessons, my teacher took me into her living room, and we listened to Glen Miller records for most of the hour. And then we had a cup of tea, and she told me, "this is the music that I love. I play piano because I love that music, and I want to be able to play it myself. What kind of music do you like?" I didn't really…

“Joy” is not found in a day. People enjoy doing things they are good at. It takes a long time to get good at some things and those days suck.

> People enjoy doing things they are good at.

Sometimes. I still hate almost all things I'm good at.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#374

Post by [deleted] »

tasuki wrote: post #209
hilbert42 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"20 years later, I got back to playing piano, and I can't thank my parent enough for having me to continue playing in my teenage years." One of the tragedies of being young is that few have the insight to realize that the 'boring' stuff parents and teachers are forcing us to learn will actually benefit us and that eventually we'll be very thankful that they did. My parents nagged me all the time about studying and ev…

> One of the tragedies of being young is that few have the insight to realize that the 'boring' stuff parents and teachers are forcing us to learn will actually benefit us and that eventually we'll be very thankful that they did. I'm 40. I don't know, perhaps I'm still young. I did not appreciate having to learn the boring parts. Learning things for the next exam so as to forget them in two weeks... I didn't see the…

[deleted]

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#375

Post by hilbert42 »

annerxox wrote: post #236
hilbert42 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"At school they keep trying to make them memorize useful phrases, like a tourist that goes to Paris…." Like learning dozens of trig identities without any explanation about why one would need them. As I've mentioned elsewhere learning math for the sake of it isn't enough. For most of us math has to have relevance, and for that we have to link it to things in the real world.

We can't even figure out that there are bottom up vs top down learners. Instead we will just continue to slog along with the same poor system. Math wise, completely at the expense of the top down learners.

Right, you'd think by now we could do a little better.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#376

Post by jalapenos »

laurent_du wrote: post #102

Very poor take. The author clearly has very limited experience with raising kids. Most kids won't do difficult things if you don't push them. Playing music, learning to spell correctly, doing mathematics, and so on. A very small minority of kids will do all of that easily and for the fun, but you can't rely on it. If you don't push your kid to do their 20 minutes of piano every day, they will half-ass it and will sto…

Just on this, do you factor in that maybe they don't practice the piano because they aren't interested in it, and that's fine because it has no practical utility? I.e. in contrast with things like spelling, which do.

Also in your opinion at what age should pushing start, and how much pushing per age group?

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#377

Post by jalapenos »

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #282
bethekidyouwant wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why does a child need to break through a plateau at anything? Of my five sample size of five, expose them and support them, some things can’t even hook you until your brain grows enough .. The musical one is in a band now the nerdy one likes inhaling solder. I did force both boys to Hockey but just to have passable skills so that he can enjoy that all that comes with the sport as an adult

> why does a child need to break through a plateau at anything? If for no other reason than to teach them that some things are worth persevering for. You can't teach kids to give up at the first sign of adversity...

This does need to be anchored in value though. They should be at least playing a part in deciding what those things are before they're pushed to persevere towards them.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#378

Post by jalapenos »

Magma7404 wrote: post #295
hilbert42 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"20 years later, I got back to playing piano, and I can't thank my parent enough for having me to continue playing in my teenage years." One of the tragedies of being young is that few have the insight to realize that the 'boring' stuff parents and teachers are forcing us to learn will actually benefit us and that eventually we'll be very thankful that they did. My parents nagged me all the time about studying and ev…

> the 'boring' stuff parents and teachers are forcing us to learn will actually benefit us My parents forced me to play the piano for more than 10 years because they were obsessed with the piano, and because they had a piano. I hated every second of doing that in order to please them, and I never got higher than beginner level because it was a torture for me. Being a beginner for 10 years should be considered as abus…

Amen. And the surreal thing is to then hear the very same mentalities behind this uttered in this comment section.

It's like there's like a vehemence in people towards abuse. Reminds me of how Zweig said that people were in a state of jubilation in anticipation of WW1.

There's something dark in humans where they don't accept the absence of pain. They think to at least some extent, that hurting their kids is a good thing, perhaps under a twisted "toughen them up" mentality.

And the thing is, they get away with it. Maybe their kid gets a chip on their shoulder against them, or maybe even estranged from them. But they don't get hurt back.

In a moral world they absolutely would.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#379

Post by jalapenos »

cpursley wrote: post #191
kstenerud wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents forced me to play piano, right up until I told them that I'll destroy our piano if they don't lay off, and any consequences they could think of would not stop me (I was normally an obedient child, but enough was enough). That got their attention. 30 years later I picked up classical guitar and loved it! Do I thank my parents for forcing the piano on me? Hell no.

Like I commented in another post, piano gave you the foundation for learning classical guitar (and appreciating that genre of music). Very few guitar players can even recognize note names on a staff. You’re not going to get far with classical guitar without it.

Can learn the foundations when you give a shit.

Doesn't actually matter how good he gets at classical guitar either.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#380

Post by khazhoux »

jalapenos wrote: post #376
laurent_du wrote: post #102

Very poor take. The author clearly has very limited experience with raising kids. Most kids won't do difficult things if you don't push them. Playing music, learning to spell correctly, doing mathematics, and so on. A very small minority of kids will do all of that easily and for the fun, but you can't rely on it. If you don't push your kid to do their 20 minutes of piano every day, they will half-ass it and will sto…

Just on this, do you factor in that maybe they don't practice the piano because they aren't interested in it, and that's fine because it has no practical utility? I.e. in contrast with things like spelling, which do. Also in your opinion at what age should pushing start, and how much pushing per age group?

There is little practical utility in most subjects.
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