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FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

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Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#371

Post by roenxi »

trod1234 wrote: post #177
lolinder wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point taken. Better said: We have no evidence that they have been disappearing people in this manner. We also, clearly, have a large body of people who are on guard for any such possible evidence, so I would reasonably expect that if it were happening with any kind of regularity we would have seen it by now. There's a possibility that this is instance #1 and we see repeats. If we do see repeats, I will happily engage…

In fairness, there was no public evidence of the Nazi death camps up until they decided to turn the prison camps into that at the Wannsee Conference either. It was only in retrospect that we learned the true horror of the Holocaust. Given that period of history, and how it brought the world to the brink, any patterning closely similar to that (which we are seeing today) these things should be considered happening unt…

There'd be a fair bit of noise if the Holocaust was happening today. It'd be more like Guantanamo Bay or the US's international program of black-bag kidnappings. You don't expect to know exactly what is going on but there is a wiki page [0] and regular leaks [1] even if only a relatively small number of people involved. Something like the holocaust couldn't fly under the radar in the age of the internet; there'd be leaks like no-one's business. They could get away with more radio silence in the 1950s by not having social media.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guant%C3%A1namo_Bay_files_leak

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#372

Post by suraci »

jimmydoe wrote: post #98

Know little about this case, but given what happened with China Initiative in Trump I, I’m genuinely surprised there are still Chinese professors not leaving or preparing to leave US. 200+ lost jobs, at least one suicide, if that still not ring alarm for these Chinese-born professionals, their IQ may not match up the tenure I assume.

> I’m genuinely surprised there are still Chinese professors not leaving or preparing to leave US

You hit the nail on the head. they clearly knew they shouldn't stay, but chose to remain here — most likely because they were on a secret mission

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#373

Post by clown_strike »

kadushka wrote: post #290
SpaceNoodled wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they tacitly admit to performing warrantless searches?

Did you read the article? A bureau spokesperson issued a statement: “I can confirm we conducted court-authorized activity at the address in Carmel today.

Sounds like possible espionage. Chinese spies spook easily and flee the country long before the FBI gets its shit together.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#374

Post by salynchnew »

whatshisface wrote: post #10
tptacek wrote: post #5

The fact pattern doesn't fit well with ICE, because Indiana University cooperated with the investigation (and struck him and his wife from their pages). The track record of espionage investigations against people of Chinese origin is not great, so it's not a defense of this investigation to say that that the details rhyme with that rather than immigration.

Spies don't get "vanished," at least not historically. They're caught, imprisoned and tried in huge public media-heavy trials. The USSR even did huge public trials for American spies, because there's no incentive to forgo the nationalist boost to public opinion when collaborators would be aware of the disappearance either way.

Being American right now makes this whole episode feel like a 1950s McCarthyism/Qian Xuesen-type situation.

Maybe another xenophobic red scare-type U.S. gov't overreaction will inadvertently export top talent to China a second time.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#375

Post by hnben »

sureglymop wrote: post #186
fracus wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Chinese govt also has a pretty nasty track record of pressuring erstwhile Chinese citizens to engage in espionage by making life hard for family back in china China also has a history of establishing "police" stations in foreign countries with the mandate to harass and control expats. They did this in Canada at least, surely they did in the US too.

I can only urge you to provide one or more good primary sources if you are making such a claim. It should be a given...

people seem downvote you, but I think this is a good example of how discussions SHOULD work.

> A: makes a strong claim, suggesting it to be well known

> B: doubts

> [100 people provide credible sources]

Also congrats for being 1 of 10000 today i guess https://xkcd.com/1053/

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#376

Post by blitzar »

suraci wrote: post #368
mmooss wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nor would it be surprising if he was a "spy" or even a double agent. It would be very surprising. How many spies and 'double agents' are there?

> Approximately 7% of Chinese people are registered CCP members so in a rough estimate, if you have 10 chinese coworkers around you, there is over a 50% probability that CCP is watching you

20% of US people are registered Republican members. If you have 10 US coworkers around you, there is over a 90% probability that GOP is watching you.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#377

Post by Animats »

hovav wrote: post #279
Animats wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main site of the Center for Distributed Confidential Computing[1] is up, and the chart of "principle investigators" still shows XiaoFeng Wang as the center director. But many other links on that site are broken and pages have been cut down, compared to an archive from last month.[2] They used to have a Github.[3] But now it says "No public repositories". Here's their NSF funding.[4][5] About US$3 million. Xiaogan…

> Xiaogang (Cliff) Wang is listed as the principal investigator. No, you are misreading the award abstract. Cliff Wang is the program manager at NSF who is the point of contact for the investigators.

Ah. Wrong box on the form. XiaoFeng Wang is in the Principal Investigator box.

Was NSF funding for the project cancelled?

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#378

Post by watwut »

lolinder wrote: post #105
slg wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the long list of problems caused by the government "disappearing" people (which they have objectively been doing lately) is that it destroys trust and therefore makes even valid legal proceedings seem more shady than they would in a world in which due process was a universal guarantee in practice. I don't fault anyone for jumping to conclusions implicating the government is in the wrong here rather than Wang.

> by the government "disappearing" anyone (which they have objectively been doing lately) Notably, they haven't been "disappearing" people in the manner that would have to be happening here. Even the most egregious cases, which are very bad, have left a paper trail for lawyers and journalists to follow. This case is notable because no one seems to know where this man has gone. But yes, point taken: the extrajudicial…

> have left a paper trail for lawyers and journalists to follow

You know only about cases that journalists follow. If there is a case journalists do not follow, there is no way for you to know about it.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#379

Post by watwut »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #323
NomDePlum wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a point where "benefit of the doubt" is not appropriate though. Personal opinion is that point is past.

Benefit of the doubt is relative to both the item and setting though. What prior evidence do we have that would cause us _not_ to extend benefit of the doubt to the US government in the specific context of disappearing people? I can think of plenty of examples of shady things various official bodies in the US have done within the past century, but regular occurrences of "extrajudicial kidnapping without a paper trail…

US did not used to do whole host thing it is doing now - like trying to destroy law companies that sued politicians. Or, removing security from former government family members while stroking hate. Or, illegally extraditing people because someone misrepresented a tattoo. Or, attacking judges the way current administration do.

Or, threatening to annex Canada and parts of Europe. Or, opening damm because there is fire in a place where water does not go.

Something not happening in the past is not a reason for it to not happen again.

Re: FBI raids home of prominent computer scientist who has gone incommunicado

#380

Post by watwut »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #349
NomDePlum wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a point where "benefit of the doubt" is not appropriate though. Personal opinion is that point is past.

There is never a time where it's appropriate to give up benefit of the doubt in general toward an entity. If your starting position is that they most likely did any and every bad thing you can think of, you quickly reach absurdity.

The same goes for extending infinite amount of benefit of doubt toward people who has shown who they are again and again and again. And this was going on for years here and very much empowered bad far right actors and their enablers.

There is no issue of people projecting bad intention into conservatives or Trump. There is opposite issue - people excusing them forever with increasingly implausible explanations.

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