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Moving away from US cloud services

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Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#371

Post by whyoh »

wkat4242 wrote: post #135
cassianoleal wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's no surprise nobody uses it for sensitive content anymore I get password reset links for pretty much every website on email. Few things as sensitive as that. I also receive and send documents, signed or for signing, with pretty sensitive information, over email. I agree it shouldn't be used for those but it certainly still is.

There's so many organisations moving away from it though. Email password recovery yes. But really, what does Proton's E2EE add to this? The email is still sent unencrypted across the internet. And only gets encrypted when it gets to their mailbox. It's not as if someone could easily break into gmail either. Unless they know your password but then Proton is just as vulnerable. I just consider their "Security" window d…

Encryption at rest is still worth something.

>It's not as if someone could easily break into gmail either. Unless they know your password...

Google employees, the NSA, hackers, ... they can all break into your Gmail without knowing your password.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#372

Post by Jolter »

9dev wrote: post #370
rambambram wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not necessarily need an explanation of what 'the cloud' is or isn't. I came to believe it's definition is vague on purpose. I found out it's (almost) the same old internet with new shiny marketing labels on it (I say 'almost' because clubs like Netflix probably need their movies stored near the end user for seamless HD streaming). With the end goal of getting everyone's data on someone else's server (so they ca…

> I did not necessarily need an explanation of what 'the cloud' is or isn't. You obtuse "whatever that is" sure made it sound like you did. > Luckily, I don't need a cloud. […] A computer, an internet connection and some webhosting get's you more than far enough for most use cases. Without vendor lock-in. That is the kind of stuff you can only say if you're not concerned about anyone but yourself. I have employees th…

I'll just state for the record that these particular use cases make up something like 90% of what my employer uses Office 365 for, and it's absolutely impossible to do our business without it right now. If we had to solve document storage by plain old file-server storage, we wouldn't even be compliant with local laws.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#373

Post by Jolter »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #227
piokoch wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, in the USA you can still have VPN server that is not storing logs, something that is simply illegal in European Union countries. In the USA you can purchase prepaid SIM card in Wallmart with cash, put it in your phone and you have anonymous phone number, again, this is illegal in Europe in a typical stupid European way, as any criminal who needs an anonymous card would pull in to the retailer some drunk or homel…

There is always a degree of incoherence in people's beliefs and actions. A good one along the lines of your comment, IMHO, is how most Europeans are very happy to promote ID cards and to be asked for theirs all the time while always complaining about "privacy" and against "surveillance". For instance in France you must show your ID to buy even a prepaid SIM card, but then again the police can ask to see your ID with…

Are you insinuating that if you're in the US, you could refuse to show your ID to a police officer when they ask for it?

Go ahead and try that, tell us how it goes...

(No, there is no requirement to be carrying your ID card in any EU countries that I'm aware of. However, most jurisdictions require you to state your identity if questioned by police as a suspect. At least here in Sweden, if you're a suspect they are allowed to detain you "for identification" if you refuse.)

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#374

Post by Jolter »

baq wrote: post #12
thisdougb wrote: post #2

I moved from GitHub to self-hosted gitolite. I use a (standard) Makefile in each repo, which my deploy job runs (make test, make build, etc). I use githooks to do various automation. It's really not that much different to GH Actions, and not more work. But it's much faster, and easier to work with. If you're working in a team, then PRs are hard to replace.

For code review and merge workflow gerrit used to be good a decade ago, it's probably good today, too. Github PRs are strictly worse today than what I remember from gerrit back then.

Gerrit is great if your team is willing to work in a rebase based workflow!

We handled huge repos on Gerrit (and a huge number of them) at my previous employer with very few problems. It does take a certain effort to self-host it, but then what doesn't.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#375

Post by Jolter »

weatherlite wrote: post #292
Lutger wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't easy or realistic, yet. But these things always start with the guys and girls with energy and skills. They write blogposts, it gets picked up. Somebody starts making improvements, convinces their manager to do it. Slowly things start to improve, people start building tools, sharing knowledge. Some of these people also work in, or for academia, industry, government branches. Once enough people are ready to pa…

> the thousands and thousands of SaaS services we rely on can easily be build from the ground up by devs from all over the world Define easily. If it was that easy to clone Microsoft Excel (up to the most miniscule detail) I'm sure someone would have done it by now and offered it for free or for half the price. It's not that easy. You can get most of the functionality done sure but not all of it - and not having all…

"in a few years Trump will be gone and things will be more normal again."

Oh, you sweet summer child... He is already dismantling democratic institutions at a startling rate. Vance is threatening to leave NATO as leverage to change UK laws. Do not make the assumption that the U.S. will be what it was, in ten years.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#376

Post by mytailorisrich »

Jolter wrote: post #373
mytailorisrich wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is always a degree of incoherence in people's beliefs and actions. A good one along the lines of your comment, IMHO, is how most Europeans are very happy to promote ID cards and to be asked for theirs all the time while always complaining about "privacy" and against "surveillance". For instance in France you must show your ID to buy even a prepaid SIM card, but then again the police can ask to see your ID with…

Are you insinuating that if you're in the US, you could refuse to show your ID to a police officer when they ask for it? Go ahead and try that, tell us how it goes... (No, there is no requirement to be carrying your ID card in any EU countries that I'm aware of. However, most jurisdictions require you to state your identity if questioned by police as a suspect. At least here in Sweden, if you're a suspect they are al…

Why the aggressive tone?

I am not expert in the US, and it has actually nothing to do with my comment, but I believe that police in the US might ask you to identify yourself in some circumstances (which is quite different from having to show an ID).

What I mentioned regarding France is that you must show an ID (passport, ID card or driving license) or face being detained at the police station when asked by police. You do not need to be a suspect of anything to be required to show an ID.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#377

Post by Jolter »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #376
Jolter wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you insinuating that if you're in the US, you could refuse to show your ID to a police officer when they ask for it? Go ahead and try that, tell us how it goes... (No, there is no requirement to be carrying your ID card in any EU countries that I'm aware of. However, most jurisdictions require you to state your identity if questioned by police as a suspect. At least here in Sweden, if you're a suspect they are al…

Why the aggressive tone? I am not expert in the US, and it has actually nothing to do with my comment, but I believe that police in the US might ask you to identify yourself in some circumstances (which is quite different from having to show an ID). What I mentioned regarding France is that you must show an ID (passport, ID card or driving license) or face being detained at the police station when asked by police. Yo…

I was certainly not going for an agressive tone. I'm trying to say that police all over the world will want to know whom they are talking to, especially if you're a suspect. I don't think it's a world of difference between the US and an "average EU country" there.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#378

Post by andrewinardeer »

bad_user wrote: post #349
andrewinardeer wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fastmail can't be trusted. Australia has some fairly draconian digital laws that authorities can issue notices requiring developers to assist with an investigation. This can include technical assistance which could require companies to build capability for law enforcement to break the encryption used in their services. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/nov/05/sessi... https://www.404media.co/encrypted-c…

Fastmail can be trusted because it's operated by trustworthy individuals, with a company from a country that's still an ally. If you don't want surveillance, you'd better not use email.

It can't be trusted because it is incorporated in Australia which has draconian digital survellience laws.

Operated by trustworthy individuals is a moot point when they are compelled by law to build in a backdoor if asked. Even a warrant canary is forbidden.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#379

Post by bad_user »

andrewinardeer wrote: post #378
bad_user wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fastmail can be trusted because it's operated by trustworthy individuals, with a company from a country that's still an ally. If you don't want surveillance, you'd better not use email.

It can't be trusted because it is incorporated in Australia which has draconian digital survellience laws. Operated by trustworthy individuals is a moot point when they are compelled by law to build in a backdoor if asked. Even a warrant canary is forbidden.

You're repeating the same information as in the comment I'm replying to.

The surveillance laws, no matter how often you repeat the word "draconian", are irrelevant because…

Email isn't safe, and most of your email probably ends up on Google's or Microsoft's servers anyway, in which case US companies can be coerced by the US government to give them everything they have, while not being able to tell the public about it. And they do just that, a fact that came to light with Snowden's revelations. Australia cannot be worse than the US.

For emails, the government surveillance is irrelevant, as it happens anyway. And solutions like Proton Email are just privacy theatre that also happen to interact poorly with established standards (e.g., SMTP, IMAP).

I also fear Australia much less than I fear the US these days. I have always feared the US, especially due to their massive security apparatus, but at least I considered them valuable allies. These days we'll just add some extra fear points due to the techno-fascists in charge, voted-in by the people with a popular vote.

Whenever I see such comments on popular forums, such as HN, I lose faith in humanity a little, either because people don't think about the threat model (this being vibes-based) or the consequences of boycotting the underdogs, or because they are disingenuous about it.

Fastmail is a fine service, built and operated by trustworthy people, which also contribute to standards (e.g. JMAP) and to open source. A service that's also not monetized by ad-tech, unlike what the Big Tech email services are doing.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#380

Post by fi358 »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #232
piokoch wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, in the USA you can still have VPN server that is not storing logs, something that is simply illegal in European Union countries. In the USA you can purchase prepaid SIM card in Wallmart with cash, put it in your phone and you have anonymous phone number, again, this is illegal in Europe in a typical stupid European way, as any criminal who needs an anonymous card would pull in to the retailer some drunk or homel…

In all of Eu countries I visited, only FI and DE asked for id when buying a prepaid sim card. And prepaid sim card days are almost over, as there is Airalo etc.

Strange as I have never heard that you would have to show your ID when buying a prepaid sim card in Finland. And I have also bought them several times and I think that I have sometimes bought them with cash.
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