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America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

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Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#371

Post by yuppii »

ActorNightly wrote: post #295
chii wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> simply providing easy immigration for qualified tech workers. I dont believe those tech workers would wish to move, unless the political system in china changes to one that is more amenable to democracy; not to mention that having high salaries in the US, it will be impossible to achieve similar levels in china after migration (even if the PPP remains the same!).

I mean, you are going to see an exodus of tech workers regardless as US economy withers up and other countries (probably in EU) pick up the slack. China won't even have to have high salaries, all they would need to do is basically set up immigrant neighborhoods that have all the familiar things that US people like, and through the nature of just being around people of similar status, whatever the salary everyone gets…

But if China starts importing immigrants, it will be just another shithole. Their quality and success come from their own population. Importing foreigners is just poisoning yourself your culture and future.

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#372

Post by InDubioProRubio »

dzonga wrote: post #318
kranke155 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So China introduced market competition at the political level and at the economic level. And they did it while remaining authoritarian. Incredible.

highly meritocratic system all the way from bottom to top. incredible indeed. in china you start as a low level official managing a village, if you succeed - you're promoted to town etc. they keep detailed records of your performance in school from kindergarten and a comprehensive dossier is compiled to evaluated by party officials. that means you will never have a nincompoop in charge at any level. maybe chinese nat…

If you appear to succeed- all that is needed is a face of success and connections to others who appear to succeed.

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#374

Post by gusmally »

opan wrote: post #173
markus_zhang wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UBI is probably going to happen I think. But I don't think it's going to achieve much. Yes it's going to give common people some foothold, but with automation and AI I really doubt we need that many jobs, and unemployment rate is going to be high anyway. The elites are going to throw UBI as a bone and then they can do whatever they want. And that's it -- A cyberpunk future where elites can pretty much ignore the comm…

>The reason I think UBI won't fix much is, UBI cannot give people purposes to live. Obviously we already have enough material wealth for everyone and UBI is just a confirmation. But "meaning" is always a luxury, and will be more so when less people need to work. I agree that people will still want/need meaning, and some may lose it, along with their jobs, but having the money for basic needs by default gives you the…

Also I think a large chunk of people will be happy to just consume media all day.

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#375

Post by dragonwriter »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #198
tzs wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone considered something like UBI but instead of income make it UBG--Universal Basic Goods. The idea would be that when automation advances to the point that something can be made with very little labor the government would build automated factories to produce that thing and make the output available for free. There would still be room for private companies to make those things too. They could make fancier or…

And who would purchase those, and with what? The only scenario where UBI/UGI would make sense is one where AI can replace most/all humans at any job they could have. At that point it makes no sense for there to be a economic hierarchy at all.

No, UBI makes sense right now (the exact level that makes sense changes over time), it is a lower-bureaucracy, lower perverse-incentives alternative to means-tested welfare (and, possibly, also minimum wages) as a means of providing a support floor (its not really a flat addition because any means of financing it will provide some form of clawback, and if done through the progressive income tax, it becomes redistributiion that compresses the pre-benefit-and-supporting-tax income distribution.

UBG is a completely different story, though.

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#376

Post by gusmally »

jsnider3 wrote: post #45
RealityVoid wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've observed this as well, I do wonder though if that doesn't strongly encourage competitivity(is this word right? autocorrect highlights it, huh) and make people work... well, more. More effective, more time, more angry. It's certainly one possible explanation for why they dominate in many areas. But it does sound like such an exhausting thing.

> competitivity "competitiveness" might be the word you want.

competition?

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#377

Post by FirmwareBurner »

scotty79 wrote: post #352
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they got wasn't capitalism, it was kleptocracy.

If you look how capitalism is actually implemented, it always has bigger or smaller kleptocratic component.

Of course, but it's the proportion of that that makes all the difference.

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#378

Post by klipt »

chii wrote: post #321
dzonga wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

highly meritocratic system all the way from bottom to top. incredible indeed. in china you start as a low level official managing a village, if you succeed - you're promoted to town etc. they keep detailed records of your performance in school from kindergarten and a comprehensive dossier is compiled to evaluated by party officials. that means you will never have a nincompoop in charge at any level. maybe chinese nat…

> they keep detailed records of your performance in school from kindergarten and a comprehensive dossier this also means you want your record pristine. And it is also why officials cover up problems rather than report it up. But their current success to out-maneuver the US in terms of trade, as well as capacity, is testament to perhaps the success of such a system. I do recall there was a massive purge on corruption…

Meanwhile the USA now has an openly corrupt president (openly favors his pal Elon Musk's companies in his daily speeches, lets Musk shut down the same agencies that regulate Musk's companies, etc) who is shielded by his party from impeachment.

China is starting to look quite well run by comparison.

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#379

Post by AtlasBarfed »

immibis wrote: post #320
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Interesting tangent to bring up. How many people does America kill?

Mao killed his own people. The only possible historical analogue is what USSR argued about missing people from the Great Depression.

Re: America Is Missing The New Labor Economy – Robotics Part 1

#380

Post by llamaimperative »

greenie_beans wrote: post #369
llamaimperative wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, those are real numbers spot-checked from Zillow. I was on my phone and, ya know, it's an Internet argument, so they're definitely ballparked, but they are from real actual land sales inside Burlington and then a few miles outside of Burlington. I suppose the delta is surprising to you? It's expensive because it's productive. The marginal productivity of living/working in Burlington means the market can sustain hi…

i look at zillow multiple times per day so i'm well aware of the local market, so no it's not surprising me. zillow doesn't give the full picture of what is happening locally. zillow list price for vacant land doesn't consider all the vacant lots held by people who aren't building for various reasons nor does it consider the surrounding suburbs etc. or the land uvm holds but doesn't develop (who they gonna sell to? t…

> Zillow list price for vacant land doesn't consider all the vacant lots held by people who aren't building for various reasons nor does it consider the surrounding suburbs etc. or the land uvm holds but doesn't develop (who they gonna sell to? they have more money than anybody). there are a lot more variables than just zillow!

What? Yes it does. That's how prices work. If UVM sold all of their land, prices would go down, but they aren't selling all of their land, so the prices are higher.

I never said "all land is being used productively." I said "land prices are the primary source of cost in high COL areas." One contributor to high land prices are all the things you mention: people withholding their unused land from the market.

No, there are not more variables than just the sale price. The price of land is the price of land, and it factors in all the variables you mentioned.

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