Well, this tipped the scale, and I just subscribed. Honestly, so refreshing to have a normal search engine after 2 years of nonstop AI crap thrown at my face.
Uhm.. Kagi has plenty of AI features. :) To be fair, you can turn them off if you wish.
Fair Pricing
371–380 of 512 posts
Re: Fair Pricing
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
You forgot to reply in that thread with a justification for saying DDG is not, effectively, just Bing. Would you like to share numbers this time, or back down? ;)
The chatter in search right now is related to AI-assisted answers, and we get 0 of that from Bing. Same with knowledge graph answers before that (which became the most prevalent search module on desktop), 0 from Bing. And same for the most prevalent search module on mobile — local results — 0 from Bing. We have hundreds of team members and millions of lines of code. We’re constantly working on search. In terms of tra…
Kinda sad to read this.
The future of search is search. The future of summaries is summaries. This should be a "youve lost your way" moment. And quite frankly, search already broke the directory, which needs a comeback as its own product. You should be able to search the web without needing to know to ask for what you dont know to ask for. Dont let summary break search the way search broke directory.
If I want an LLM in my search, its because I want to have a conversation with the search engine about how it got the wrong results, and explain WHY and have it use the conversation to build new filters to block the wrong results and surface the correct results. I then want to read the source.
Right now if you ask google if Anora has a post credits scene, it says yes, because somebody tweeted a joke answer. A good product would let me reply to it and tell it its mistake.
The reason summaries are even attractive in the first place is because search itself is returning such garbage. The answer should be fixing search not abandoning it. The "summary" should be below the heaader of the result. (You should also rewrite page titles, a la Techmeme.)
Re: Fair Pricing
#373Unfortunately, I will never be able to take advantage of this policy, For the very reason that I have kagi Set as my exclusive search engine on every single device that I own, And there's no way that I could go even a Day, let alone a month, without using this fantastic service. Keep up the good work guys!
Absolutely seconded. What I also love is Vlad / the Kagi team's fierce neutrality. For example, there have been complaints about including results from certain indexes like Brave and Yandex, or about suicide, or other political / sensitive stuff and Vlad's response is virtually always a shade of "no matter what, we will display the results because we are a search engine foremost". Oh and they have built-in CSS inject…
The problem is not showing stuff from Yandex, the problem is that by paying Kagi you Yandex by proxy and that is an absolute red line for many people.
Re: Fair Pricing
#374This is a nice way to convince people to dip into the Kagi ecosystem. I use Kagi full-time, by default in all my browsers and love it! So this won’t save me a dime (which is still totally cool). It would be nice if they implemented it (or some metered pricing) for the extra-cost AI/LLM features, though (since I pay for them but rarely, if ever, use them). I also really like this model for subscription services in gen…
Its good and they deserve credit for it. Let me be clear on that.
Now, wouldnt it be even better to implement usage based pricing with a maximum that's equal to the current subscription?
I dont know the Kagi details. Say you pay 10/month and each search is $0.02. You pay max(search_count * 0.02, 10).
I guess the logic is much simpler for their current system. It's 10/month, period. Then if you didnt search anything you get a refund. Instead of tracking and calculating usage.
However, usage pricing should be more enticing for casual users. With the statement refund for 0 use, there is now an incentive for infrequent users to NOT to use the product.
Re: Fair Pricing
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
My pitch to friends is that it’s like Google used to be before they started adding all the crap to their results and ignoring your search terms. Really, it’s even better than that given the full feature set.
Note to self: Make something good enough that friends will feel the need to make up pitches for their friends to use said thing.
Really. In the case of Google it’s even deeper for me. For some reason the ruination of their search engine feels like a betrayal for which Kagi’s proliferation feels like justice.
Re: Fair Pricing
#376I find Kagi to be very expensive. $10 a month for unlimited pricing. For around the same price, I can stream millions of songs, or stream thousands of high res videos, or subscribe to both premium e-mail and a premium task manager. What makes web search so expensive?
It's not that Kagi is expensive at all. It is that your streaming services and premium e-mail service are incredibly cheap. Can you name a few things which you can purchase in your local supermarket that brings you the same value for $10?
Re: Fair Pricing
#377Kagi has popped up a couple of times here recently and looks interesting, but there are a few things keeping me from actually trying it out * I don't trust the product's claims. Sure, privacy and user-centered results sound cool, but literally every company on the internet claims to cater to the user and value their privacy. Kagi can apparently afford to be more specific than usual, but how binding is that? I don't k…
> I don't trust the product's ability to stay around
Why does it matter for a search engine? It's not a tool in which you store your data and need to be stable.
You use it now, when it's available. If one day it stops being available, or stops being good, then you stop using it. Nothing lost compared to not having used it in the first place.
Re: Fair Pricing
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
The chatter in search right now is related to AI-assisted answers, and we get 0 of that from Bing. Same with knowledge graph answers before that (which became the most prevalent search module on desktop), 0 from Bing. And same for the most prevalent search module on mobile — local results — 0 from Bing. We have hundreds of team members and millions of lines of code. We’re constantly working on search. In terms of tra…
Kinda sad to read this. The future of search is search. The future of summaries is summaries. This should be a "youve lost your way" moment. And quite frankly, search already broke the directory, which needs a comeback as its own product. You should be able to search the web without needing to know to ask for what you dont know to ask for. Dont let summary break search the way search broke directory. If I want an LLM…
I also like traditional results, which is how I got into this in the first place (crawling myself). I meant the conversation right now is about AI-assisted answers, and just revised to make that more clear what I referring to.
In any case, I agree with you they should just be a part of the search results page. Where they should appear is actually an interesting question we are exploring right now, and are finding the placement is very query-dependent (middle, bottom, right, top), and maybe should be customizable in any case.
We have a feedback box next to every answer where you can provide that feedback, which we read. We try to avoid user-generated content in general as sources right now. And current customization can control how often they appear (including never).
Re: Fair Pricing
#379Unfortunately, I will never be able to take advantage of this policy, For the very reason that I have kagi Set as my exclusive search engine on every single device that I own, And there's no way that I could go even a Day, let alone a month, without using this fantastic service. Keep up the good work guys!
I just wish the unlimited plan was $5 instead of $10
I too wish that the things I might spend money on were half the price.
Re: Fair Pricing
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
yes I do think there is a important difference between google triangulating data, trading data with others and attaching a name to an ip adress by their own efforts without me voluntarily giving them that information for free. And you seem to forget that Google lost a class action suit about incognito mode. And I'd rather sue Google than Kagi. Plus, like 23andme, when times are tough I don't want to think about what…
The difference is the business model. Today , Kagi has a negative incentive to even historically track user search data (if discovered, their business would be cooked). Consequently, it's very likely they're being honest and don't. Furthermore, they're building a sustainable business around subscription revenue. In the event any of the above changes, they still won't have any historical data to share. As opposed to G…
> Today, Kagi has a negative incentive
Thank you for agreeing with me. Why would I bother using a VC-backed search engine today that forces me to login to use it routinely only to receive an email later saying, "An Update to our Terms of Service". And whose only way to convince me that they do not store my data is to tell me that I can "trust them." Even if I trusted them, I wouldn't trust their investors or their random late stage C suits.
>As opposed to Google
Are you willfully ignoring what I wrote in bad faith? Google had to settle a class action law suit that forced them to delete "billions of user records" and still allowed them get sued for individual claims down the road. Use kagi to search for the winston strawn summary of the case.
Here is an excercise: Open a three letter browser starting with the letter T, go to google.com and search for the life expectancy of ALS. Now close the browser.
Now tell me what google can deduce about about the real-life ethbrl with certainty and how they came by that information.