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TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

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Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#371

Post by nonrandomstring »

hcurtiss wrote: post #224

By saying China's using Tik Tok to subvert "democracy," aren't we really saying voters are not individual agents but rather a mob subject to manipulation by propaganda? I sometimes cannot believe it's those who so loudly cry about threats to "democracy" that simultaneously take such a cynical view of the democratic process. Rather than tackle the narratives substantively, they'd argue about who gets to manipulate the…

> voters are not individual agents but rather a mob subject to manipulation by propaganda?

That is true, yet it's not incompatible with democracy. In the US Horace Mann established the foundational link between education and democracy. It's why civics and other forms of intellectual self-defence are essential.

The problem with social media (and BigTech lazy "convenient" non-thought) is not that it's a propaganda conduit as much as that it's antithetical to critical thinking. It's more complex than simply the content, it's the form too.

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#372

Post by svilen_dobrev »

excuse my ignorance..

AFAI-remember years ago Trump was "fired" out of presidency before end of mandate, AND banned in biggest social networks.

Now he is playing president before officially entering a mandate, AND around that those same social networks bosses are cringeing - just in case?

That's two things, one that the exact boundaries of period of the mandate doesn't seem to matter, and second, the social-media BS-dancing thing..

so who's in charge ?

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#373

Post by samr71 »

nickthegreek wrote: post #327
lumost wrote: post #266

This seems to imply that the president elect can make unilateral guarantees contravening US law. That’s a surprising outcome.

If this stands, it certainly is. It’s a mockery of the whole of the system. Congress better act on overturning it post haste or enforcing it post haste.

They only have one option for the next two years: Impeach and remove. GOOD LUCK LMAO

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#375

Post by johnnyanmac »

perihelions wrote: post #68
Buttons840 wrote: post #45

The TikTok debate has always been about the balance between national security and free speech. We found a compromise. TikTok will remain, all of its national security risks will remain. Also, the law that tramples free speech is upheld by the court, but will be blantently ignored and unenforced. Everybody loses. This outcome is worse than anyone could have conceived.

- "Everybody loses. This outcome is worse than anyone could have conceived." The outcome is *exactly* as anyone with a modicum of sense expected. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" —often paraphrased (sensibly!) as "deserve neither and *will lose both*." As you say: we've lost both—who could have predicted that? Yeah; well. https://en…

Except that no one voted to give up this liberty nor purchase this "safety". The oligarchs determined that they wanted to purchase power and "elected" to take our liberty.

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#376

Post by hcurtiss »

serbuvlad wrote: post #332
hcurtiss wrote: post #224

By saying China's using Tik Tok to subvert "democracy," aren't we really saying voters are not individual agents but rather a mob subject to manipulation by propaganda? I sometimes cannot believe it's those who so loudly cry about threats to "democracy" that simultaneously take such a cynical view of the democratic process. Rather than tackle the narratives substantively, they'd argue about who gets to manipulate the…

The advantage of democracy is that the propaganda game gets played every few years and current elites can lose. Under a system of freedom of speech, there is very little stopping a decently (but not massively) funded rag-tag group of competent individuals from running a more efficient propaganda campaign than the powers-that-be (think of Dominic Cummings' Leave campaign in the UK for the perfect example). This is the…

This is a thoughtful reply. But, if it's just propaganda games played by the elites, I suppose another way to ensure informed outcomes might be literacy tests. Or property ownership.

I guess more than anything I'm just surprised that it's the "threat to democracy" crowd that would be taking such a cynical view of democracy. They're admitting that Trump's propaganda was just better than theirs. Which is, in some ways, hilarious.

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#377

Post by [deleted] »

hcurtiss wrote: post #224

By saying China's using Tik Tok to subvert "democracy," aren't we really saying voters are not individual agents but rather a mob subject to manipulation by propaganda? I sometimes cannot believe it's those who so loudly cry about threats to "democracy" that simultaneously take such a cynical view of the democratic process. Rather than tackle the narratives substantively, they'd argue about who gets to manipulate the…

[deleted]

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#378

Post by vkou »

Buttons840 wrote: post #45

The TikTok debate has always been about the balance between national security and free speech. We found a compromise. TikTok will remain, all of its national security risks will remain. Also, the law that tramples free speech is upheld by the court, but will be blantently ignored and unenforced. Everybody loses. This outcome is worse than anyone could have conceived.

It's worse than that. The platform is now beholden to the president for its survival.

If you're wondering how Russia slipped from a flawed democracy into an aurocracy, it was because Yeltsin fixed the 1996 election, by holding an axe over the head of the press. He made it very clear that anybody who wants to keep their broadcast licenses will need to shill for him.

It's how a drunken autocrat with an 8% approval rating, credited for both hyperinflation and mass unemployment, who launched a coup (that killed a few hundred people and caused a constitutional crisis) ended up getting re-elected.

And then at the eleventh hour, after firing his cabinet, again, he declares Putin his successor and resigns over a $10,000 bribery scandal.

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#379

Post by czhu12 »

Whether you support trump or not, the level of patronage that corporations seem to think is needed is disturbing. I've never seen companies stoking a presidents ego so publicly.

If there comes a day in the future where the header of every major website starts says "Long Live Donald Trump", we will all be worse off for it.

I've been extremely surprised how eagerly people have accepted this as a new normal. I can't imagine it's in the long term interest of billionaires to be labeled as oligarchs by half the country.

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#380

Post by samr71 »

svilen_dobrev wrote: post #372

excuse my ignorance.. AFAI-remember years ago Trump was "fired" out of presidency before end of mandate, AND banned in biggest social networks. Now he is playing president before officially entering a mandate, AND around that those same social networks bosses are cringeing - just in case? That's two things, one that the exact boundaries of period of the mandate doesn't seem to matter, and second, the social-media BS-…

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