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NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

congestion-pricing-tracker.com

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Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#371

Post by np- »

steveBK123 wrote: post #348
CPLX wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you figure that? The amount of the surcharge for the average taxi/uber driver per day will be many many multiples of the cost for a regular driver. In the case of a regular driver you you have someone paying $9 to bring a car into the congested area, probably serving one trip by one person. In the case of a TLC driver you'll have them paying probably well over $100 a day (assuming the $2.75 charge x 4-5 trips…

I have a car and live in Brooklyn. I usually take an Uber anyway because parking is a pain and/or expensive. So I was previously comparing: $0 car toll + $20-50 parking vs $0 car toll + $50 Taxi/Uber fare Now I am comparing: $9 car toll + $20-50 parking vs $1.50 Uber toll + $50 Uber fare That is - the fee is being passed onto riders anyway, so why should I pay a lower toll sitting in the back of an Uber than when dri…

Think of the congestion charge as a charge on the vehicle, rather than on the person, as the stated policy goal is to reduce the number of vehicles in the CBD, not the number of people overall. The Uber is very likely going to continue to be used to service other passengers after dropping you off within the same calendar day, so one potential "fair" solution is to split the congestion charge among the many passengers using that one vehicle. That is your reduced Uber toll charge. But even in this case, it's not really an even split, taxis are going to generate a much higher congestion charge revenue than a single passenger car.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#372

Post by rtkwe »

supernova87a wrote: post #51

What I am interested to know but cannot find is: Are there are cameras inside the zone tracking cars to bill them if you are already in the zone, or if cameras only track entry to the zone? (i.e. cameras only on the border). If someone happens to evade the cameras, do they catch them eventually just by traveling within the zone? I believe London for example has internal zone cameras. The purpose being, first of all,…

The number of people who entirely live and work and drive inside the zone is going to be vanishingly small in comparison to the people who transit the zone border so I'm not sure it's going to be that big of a deal.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#373

Post by throw4847285 »

freen wrote: post #113

The harsh law of hacker news: For any topic outside of strict software development, the strength, viciousness and certitude of opinions expressed is inversely proportional to the level of knowledge about the subject. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2021/3/3/the-fundamental...

It was shocking to read The Power Broker last year and learn that since 1940s at least, urban planners have been aware of induced demand. Caro even brings up congestion pricing as a proposal that was rejected not because it wouldn't solve then problem but because the entire urban planning infrastructure was built to deny that there was a problem.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#374

Post by MisterTea »

johnkpaul wrote: post #344
MisterTea wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowy? That was a light dusting that I cleaned up with a broom.

I think it was worse in suburban areas slightly outside of the city, at least on the NJ side. In western Bergen county, I had a bit over 1 inch and had to break out the shovel for the sidewalk.

Still though, an inch or two around here is not a big deal. I only really start complaining when I have to break out the snow blower.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#375

Post by lolinder »

steveBK123 wrote: post #348
CPLX wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you figure that? The amount of the surcharge for the average taxi/uber driver per day will be many many multiples of the cost for a regular driver. In the case of a regular driver you you have someone paying $9 to bring a car into the congested area, probably serving one trip by one person. In the case of a TLC driver you'll have them paying probably well over $100 a day (assuming the $2.75 charge x 4-5 trips…

I have a car and live in Brooklyn. I usually take an Uber anyway because parking is a pain and/or expensive. So I was previously comparing: $0 car toll + $20-50 parking vs $0 car toll + $50 Taxi/Uber fare Now I am comparing: $9 car toll + $20-50 parking vs $1.50 Uber toll + $50 Uber fare That is - the fee is being passed onto riders anyway, so why should I pay a lower toll sitting in the back of an Uber than when dri…

> This is where some of the concerns about classism come into play. I'm already paying more to be driven around in an Uber vs drive myself. Why should I be given a toll discount?

It's not obvious that Uber is exclusively the higher-class option. Someone could easily make the same calculation you just did and decide that for them even owning a car wouldn't be worth it, they'll just do Uber every time they need to. You can afford to own a car and do Uber anyway, others can only afford to Uber occasionally when needed.

I don't have data to back it up, but I would actually be surprised if the average Uber customer in NYC owns a car at all.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#376

Post by coldpie »

screye wrote: post #250
freen wrote: post #113

The harsh law of hacker news: For any topic outside of strict software development, the strength, viciousness and certitude of opinions expressed is inversely proportional to the level of knowledge about the subject. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2021/3/3/the-fundamental...

Whiplash, every time. HN's takes on cars are shockingly bad. For a community as thoughtful as HN, their responses are (to use an insult provocatively) car brained. It's as if cities don't exist outside the US. The US is decades behind on urban infrastructure and governance. This means their policy debates in 2025 have been globally settled issues for decades with outcomes to back it up. Conjecture can't be an effecti…

> HN's takes on cars are shockingly bad. For a community as thoughtful as HN, their responses are (to use an insult provocatively) car brained.

Hm, as a big public-transit advocate coming here 5 hours after your comment, I actually thought the discussion is in pretty good shape. There's a handful of "cars only!" nuts, but they're a small minority. It seems the vibes around this topic are fairly positive, with lots of support for funding better public transit.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#377

Post by indoordin0saur »

Aspos wrote: post #360
CPLX wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as far as I can tell got very little for my money You literally lived in the greatest city in the history of world civilization. Sorry it didn't work out for you.

You seriously think NYC is the greatest city in the history of world civilization? Or is it sarcasm? I am asking this as NYC resident.

If your definition of greatest is "total GDP" then it is the greatest in the world. That said, I would agree that Tokyo and maybe even London are much finer examples of cities.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#378

Post by enragedcacti »

steveBK123 wrote: post #349
gregshap wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The uber/taxi fee is charged per ride, whereas private passenger cars pay once per day. Seems like a reasonable tradeoff.

Private passenger car driver is paying 12x Taxi toll / 6x Uber toll. Taxi/Uber toll is passed directly onto he rider. Why should it be cheaper to be chauffeured? Also your average Taxi may not even cross into the CPZ 12x per day, so unclear we are making it up on volume either.

Small correction, every ride that starts and/or ends in the zone incurs the fee so a taxi that enters, does 12 trips, then leaves pays the same amount as a private car even though they only entered the zone once.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#379

Post by durumu »

CSMastermind wrote: post #206
fuzzylightbulb wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is literally what the money is for

When I lived in NYC I paid huge amounts of money in taxes and as far as I can tell got very little for my money. Until they can start using their enormous existing budget wisely I don't see any reason they should be given more money.

I agree NYC is not wisely spending its $100 billion per year, but I think the congestion tax makes sense as a way of pricing in externalities. As a non-car-owner in lower Manhattan I dislike passenger cars -- they make it much less safe for me to bike around, and less pleasant for me to walk around. I think most people here benefit if we have way fewer large vehicles in the city, so the limited spots should be reserved for people who get immense economic value from them, like truckers or movers, not random people from the suburbs who want to have dinner in the city.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#380

Post by Spooky23 »

steveBK123 wrote: post #351
throwawaymaths wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if the passenger car pays once a day, it's only generating one unit of congestion.

And further, if I am already paying $50 fare to take an Uber, a $1.50 toll is not deterring me or reducing my usage at all. It is less than the rounding error on the tip I give the driver. I probably won't even notice it amongst the 5 line items of fees, taxes, surcharges, etc on the digital receipt.

This is where the dogma gets in the way of reality. Uber and cabs are the glue that fills the gaps that public transit has left unfilled for decades.

The policy goal is to reduce congestion by discouraging personal vehicles in the zone and generate revenue for transportation as a whole, not to turn the city into a pedestrian park. The state took an approach that does that without nuking the city.

Based on the fact that nobody seems to be giddy about this, I’d say they did a decent job at that. If the crazy transit nuts are happy and the angry Jersey people are happy, something went wrong.

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