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Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

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Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#371
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western LLMs have a bias when it comes to Israel and Palestine issue. Out of curiously, what part of the Quran do you consider controversial?

Not the OP, but here's one I feel quite uncomfortable with: https://quran.com/en/an-nisa/155/tafsirs - "The Hour will not start, until after the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them. The Jew will hide behind a stone or tree, and the tree will say, `O Muslim! O servant of Allah! This is a Jew behind me, come and kill him". Other examples from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An-Nisa include "Men are the prote…

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Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not aware of any non western models that are not under censorship. Ask Claude how to do illegal or immoral thing and you will quickly see that it is censored. I didn't mean to problematize censorship. Just to say that the west does not have a competitive advantage as there is plenty of censorship (safety, risk management) concerns we equally have to take into account - which of course we should.

Trying to equate government mandated censorship to private company policy censorship is a wholly dishonest sleight of hand.

> equating [censorship] to [censorship] is dishonest

Someone who would use this obvious of a red herring is dishonest. The point was not that the censorship is identical, but that the effect of censorship is in both cases to lobotomize the models.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#374
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One area where I'll be worried about China (not sure India as it's following USA in many ways) is they needn't spend time, resources on ensuring political compliance. Maybe yes in a different sense but not in the same sense as in returning "correct" answers for questions. We saw that with Google. That should knock God knows how many GPU cycles, time and training of models.

Huh? China has political censorship by law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_China It’s much harder if anything, due to the sheer amount of topics censored.

That's what I meant by different sense. Yes.

But I suspect it applies to citizen facing things. It doesn't likely hold up research or pressures them into returning POC Viking images.

I could be wrong of course.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#375

So much spam around this model. LocalLLaMA is stuffed with spam posts and even hacker news is getting spammed. Who has actually ran this model and verified performance? Does anyone know of a decent review from a trustworthy source?

Where’s the spam?

I scrolled dozens of posts without seeing a single mention of this—the biggest (certainly the most interesting) LLM news recently. When something big happens with Claude or ChatGPT there are more posts, but nobody calls that “spam”.

Anyways, if you were actually following locallama (a subreddit about running LLMs locally, where this is by far the biggest and most relevant news topic currently) you’d have seen this post https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/s/Yay5njt963 where a guy is working on running deepseek on llamacpp and demonstrates ~8tk/s using a cpu.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#377
post #226

> Liang Wenfeng: We believe that as the economy develops, China should gradually become a contributor instead of freeriding. In the past 30+ years of the IT wave, we basically didn’t participate in real technological innovation. We’re used to Moore’s Law falling out of the sky, lying at home waiting 18 months for better hardware and software to emerge. That’s how the Scaling Law is being treated.

In the past few years, Chinese publications on AI research have surpassed English-language ones. Deepseek itself is open-sourced

Total number of publications or even citations is not a good metric to measure success in any competitive field.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#378
post #75

China doesn't limit their AI research with so called safety and other concerns, but we do. Who is going to win? Somehow I don't think this is going to be us.

What is the "so called safety" that we do?

For example, ask Claude to help you out with a question from jackbox.tv and it will refuse because it's not family friendly.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#379
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the biggest reasons why China or India are threat to the West. Because their Engineers are constantly in situations were they have to work with much less resources. And they come up with stuff that constantly surprises people for being much cheaper. The western reaction is to then go and buy them out. Its not going to work forever. They have already taken over large swathes of the tech landscape. Even…

For how much we all bitch about beancounters, I'm kind of surprised that beancounters haven't managed to convince management to buy bottom-of-the-barrel Celeron laptops for software developers. Make those fucking assholes use the hardware of the people instead of some monstrosity with a 256 cores CPU and 48 TB of RAM and 24 exabytes of enterprise SSD and an RTX Cinco Grande connected via optical fiber to the Amazonfl…

I have access to a couple of Macbook Pros and a Linux machine with very good processors, but I do my hobby development all in an old Macbook Air. That allows me to see when my code runs slowly much more clearly. On an M1, everything just runs so fast you don't notice when you have a serious performance issue which is painfully obvious on the Macbook Air! I recommend doing that, though it does require patience waiting for things that are instant on the better machines.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#380

Try asking about the Tiananmen Square massacre or why people compare Xi to Paddington Bear or even the failings of Xi... but it will happily criticise Trump.

Their web interface refuses it, but their api still answers it happily!
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