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Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

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Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#371

Post by isk517 »

ben7799 wrote: post #356
lm28469 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our bodies are really good at providing exactly the amount of muscle we need for our daily activities The problem is that the average joe's daily activity is incompatible with an healthy muscle mass. After 30 if you don't actively exercise you lose muscle mass, if you're obese, 50 and starve yourself or take drugs that make you lose more muscles than necessary you won't gain them back ever unless you do some form o…

Some years ago there was a crazy science exhibit going around museums in the US that had human cadavers preserved with some plasticizing process where you could see different tissues. They also had cross sections. They actually had an exhibit showing the effects of obesity on tissues. This was before fat acceptance became a thing. That was really an eye opening exhibit showing shrunken muscle tissue, shrunken hearts,…

It was a really great exhibit, watch a smoker regret his life choices in real-time when given the chance to hold a lung taken from a smoker.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#372

Post by scruple »

cthalupa wrote: post #287
scruple wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, it takes far less strength training than one would expect, too, to maintain muscle mass. From what I've experienced, 30 minutes a week, given sufficient stimulus, is enough.

There are more and more PhD researchers focusing on resistance training these days, and yeah, it turns out the minimum effective dose is waaaaaay lower than we previously thought. https://www.minimumdosetraining.com/ - free training program + links to a bunch of studies the author was involved in on this specific subject.

I love this so much, thanks for sharing. I have my own minimum effective dose protocols that I use when life is kicking me in the face but I am going to try these on for size during the coming holiday season.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#373

Post by notesinthefield »

pogue wrote: post #361

It would seem wise to potentially add a low dosed anabolic androgenic steroid like Anavar (Oxandrolone) [1] during a course of Ozempic. This would help keep skeletal muscle in tact during a calorie deficient period. A low dose wouldn't be expected to cause much, if any, side effects. But it's something that would be best put through rigorous studies. But bodybuilders have been using tricks like these for decades (obv…

I have done exactly this. I stack semaglutide with ~ 1 ml testosterone and .35 ml of anavar weekly. I’ve transitioned out of regularly competing in powerlifting to running and yoga everyday. 47lbs down in 5 months and havent felt this good since college.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#374

Post by s1artibartfast »

consteval wrote: post #360
s1artibartfast wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carbs is also colloquialism for calorie dense grains and cereals. Broccoli is like 5% carbs by mass. Bread is 50% carbs by mass. It is a hell of a lot easier to overconsume the latter, spike your insulin, and get into a cycle of cravings. There is no boogie man trying to scare people away from broccoli.

> There is no boogie man trying to scare people away from broccoli I disagree, everyone I know who has been on a keto dietic consumes little to no fruits or fiber. Honestly, I'm not sure how they use the bathroom successfully with such little fiber ingestion.

If you are talking very specifically about a ketogenic diet, then fruits actually do have too many carbs to maintain ketosis. In that case, it isn't some irrational fear, but reality.

Re fiber, A significant portion of the population (maybe a majority) doesn't need much fiber to use the bathroom. It seems like this need is a common situation that people assume is a universal truth. Further, fiber can lead to constipation for many people.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#375

Post by cma »

tomhoward wrote: post #181

I'm not commenting specifically on the heart-muscle aspect of the study, but it shouldn't be a surprise that the weight loss from this drug is significantly attributable to muscle loss; it almost always is when dieting. It's the same with keto/low-carb or any other kind of caloric-restrictive dieting (which Ozempic facilitates). The modern weight-loss programs I'm seeing now (at least those aimed mostly at middle-age…

On top of that wouldn't even liposuction already reduce heart muscle over time because of the lower amount of vasculature extent afterwards? Less volume to need to pump through and less metabolic and oxygen demand.

There is significant heart remodeling after even things like major amputations because of the changing demands on the heart.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#376

Post by shaky-carrousel »

crazygringo wrote: post #281

I'm always so baffled by warnings about losing muscle when losing weight. Of course you do! If your body is tens of pounds lighter, then you don't need the extra muscle to lug it around. This paper is about reduction in heart muscle, and of course your heart doesn't need to be as strong because there's less blood to pump and less tissue to fuel. When you gain weight, you also increase the muscles needed to carry that…

And obviously the heart is going to reduce muscle now that it doesn't need to pump blood through heaps of fat.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#377

Post by epistasis »

inamberclad wrote: post #242
kbos87 wrote: post #137

There are a lot of people here citing loss of muscle mass as a side effect of GLP-1s, when the reality is that weight loss almost always comes with muscle loss. For me, that hasn't even been the case. I'm down 40lbs on a relatively low dose of Semaglutide and my muscle mass has moderately increased over the last 6 months. The hysteria over this is totally unfounded.

Anecdotes don't equal data. "Always" and "never" don't exist in medicine. I'm sure that your experience is accurate to yourself, but these studies have to cast a wider net since there is always variability in results.

The post you are replying to didn't say "always" it said "almost always," wich is perfectly cromulent. And it's also consistent with all the literature I have seen too.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#378

Post by s1artibartfast »

bityard wrote: post #365
crazygringo wrote: post #281

I'm always so baffled by warnings about losing muscle when losing weight. Of course you do! If your body is tens of pounds lighter, then you don't need the extra muscle to lug it around. This paper is about reduction in heart muscle, and of course your heart doesn't need to be as strong because there's less blood to pump and less tissue to fuel. When you gain weight, you also increase the muscles needed to carry that…

I don't mean to target your comment specifically because it's obvious you know the difference, but I'm continually annoyed by the conflation of fat and muscle as "weight," even by medical professionals who should know better. We should not be talking about losing "losing weight" as a substitute for saying "losing fat," which is what most people mean. Likewise, when people say they want to "gain weight", they almost a…

That doesn't strike me as a real problem.

Everybody already understands that "losing weight" means losing fat, not muscle. They don't leave the doctors office after a weight warning thinking they need to stop going to the gym.

Likewise, nobody is scared of gaining muscle because they think it will be bad for their health.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#379

Post by omegaworks »

lenerdenator wrote: post #316

I was wondering when the other shoe would drop. These drugs are turning into a band-aid on the fact that it's more profitable to sell addictive, high-calorie foods in the US than foods that promote long-term health. We'll decay people's heart muscles before we put a tax on unhealthy food to help fund Medicare and Medicaid.

> a tax on unhealthy food to help fund Medicare and Medicaid.

Fully 13% of the population lives in an area with restricted access to grocery stores[1]. Couple that with car-centric anti-pedestrian development[2] and you have a definitively societal problem. Addressing that with taxes on the individual will not address these causes, only shift the burden further onto the poor.

1. https://www.aecf.org/blog/communities-with-limited-food-acce...

2. https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2023/11/09/i...

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#380

Post by s1artibartfast »

snozolli wrote: post #345
ANewFormation wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The percents are very different. For example in bodybuilding one normally 'bulks' while working out, because it maximizes muscle gain. But then naturally this needs to be paired with cutting, unless you're a Greek Grizzly, but the total muscle loss is relatively negligible, especially when maintaining a proper high protein diet. At 40% muscle loss you're getting awful close to losing weight while increasing your body…

For example in bodybuilding one normally 'bulks' while working out, because it maximizes muscle gain. But then naturally this needs to be paired with cutting This comes from professional bodybuilding, where people are using steroids, along with various, uh, interesting chemicals on the cut[1]. It has almost no benefit to (real) natural bodybuilders. It's closely tied to cycles of steroids. [1] Ephedrine, Albuterol, C…

Are you claiming that a drug free person can gain as much muscle mass while in a calorie deficit as while in a calorie surplus?

If so, I would be very curious to that reference.

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