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Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#371
post #260
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could say I have a better experience with recruiters but I haven't. I've heard there are good recruiters, I don't doubt it, but it doesn't seem easy to find anymore than the next job is.

There really isn't a "good" recruiter from a candidate perspective. Their incentives are to support the firms they recruit for, and screen candidates. They do not work for your benefit. My experience early in my career was that I needed to work with many of these recruiters until I found a gig. My experience at the time was weak, and my resume reflected that. I had to take the gigs which had lower competition e.g. sy…

Sort of. 3rd-party recruiters get paid on commission: they make money when their candidate gets hired in favor of the other recruiters' candidates. In that sense, the incentives are actually aligned in your favor when you're applying for a job that you really want: the recruiter is motivated to work to get you hired, and is only constrained by the need to not annoy the hiring manager. The incentives turn against you when the recruiter doesn't have any jobs that you really want, but is trying the numbers approach and putting you forward for things that you aren't really qualified for, "just in case" it's a good fit. You need to be aware that both of these scenarios can occur, so you can steer yourself away from the latter and towards the former.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#372
post #131

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I'm already there with the monthly HN hiring threads. Not one of those companies over several years ever responded to me, even the ones where the listing felt tailor made for me, even the ones that literally said they respond to all applicants. They're a total waste of time lol

The HN hiring thread is seemingly used by people to promote their company / org more than to actually hire people.

I think in a lot of cases HN job postings are from "companies" in such an early stage that they're not even sure if they've got funding. They post something thinking they're going to get funding to hire, but then it falls through. I put "companies" in quotes here because it's more like an idea for a company than an actual company.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that number was conservative. I was hiring at 1/2 and 1/3.

So source: “trust me bro”?

This is an incredibly obnoxious response. This isn't a court. People can site their professional experience in an informal conversation.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#374

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the person applying for the green card already works for the interviewing company. the job opening is THAT green card applicant's job requirements. the lawyer/law firm handling the green card application process has to prove that there are no US citizens who are qualified to do the job. if there were qualified applicants for the job, then the green card applicant won't be given a green card, I assume. But that green…

If the labor market test yields a candidate, the petition isn't filed. So there is formally no rejection from the USCIS. But application processes fail at this step all the time.

You explained it perfectly. I’d never lie, if I interviewed someone comparable the process ends immediately internally. But the employee (who is still an amazing employee, exceeds, promotions, Etc) is not fired

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#375
post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So source: “trust me bro”?

This is an incredibly obnoxious response. This isn't a court. People can site their professional experience in an informal conversation.

You know what’s actually obnoxious? spreading nonsense for internet points. This is all public data btw so you can easily go on DOL website and pull those apps with real salaries.

If we are trading anecdotes here I personally dont know any h1bs who are making less than 300k total comp. Hows that for obnoxious?

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#376
post #206

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I once applied for my own job req (a JD I wrote for a role on my own team), and the HR system automatically kicked my resume out for being unqualified.

Interesting. Every recruiter on linkedin will swear blind that technology doesn't work like that, and they have to manually sort through and review hundreds of applications, and ATS don't just blindly trash/delete applications. But I can't believe your situation did not happen, and that similar things aren't happening regularly.

i'm a hiring manager for engineers and have worked with tons of ATSes and have yet to work with a system that does this. i'm not saying it isn't real, but even as a director with fairly privileged access to the hiring pipeline and near-administrative access to the ATS at a public company with tons of applicants, i've never even seen an option for this sort of thing.

the ATS will tag candidates who meet certain key requirements or highlight them, but for the most part it's just a big messy list of people that someone has to filter through. humans are super bad at eliminating their biases and there's a sense that the top of the hiring funnel is mostly noise and unqualified folks, so i think the much more mundane reality is that until you make it past the first (very arbitrary) screen you don't get that much consideration as a candidate.

when i'm helping recruiting make a dent in inbound applications, i'd say charitably i spend 5 minutes per application on initial screen (to clear a backlog of sometimes hundreds.) i try my best to be aware of my biases, but that's almost no time for absorbing someone's entire career, trying to find correlations between their accomplishments and the role, sussing out red flags and then making a decision as to whether their application is worth investing potentially hours of time on in next steps.

a couple other things that play into this:

- i've never worked at a company that didn't believe they'd hired so well that they were truly one of the stand-out, high performing teams that could afford to be picky, and "as good as us" often isn't good enough when the mandate is to "constantly raise the bar." obviously this is delusional but it's pervasive in corporate culture.

- right now in particular, the terrible market combined with the intricacy of AI-generated applications for candidates that don't exist (this is the most bizarre trend I've experienced thus far - candidates with personal websites, githubs that are just forks of public repos, and extensive and impressive resumes at major companies who do not exist and when brought onto interview calls will not turn on their cameras and speak with a weird delay as if they're asking ChatGPT for answers) really means that the zone is utterly flooded with garbage. the mental fatigue on resume 50 of 400 is substantial, let alone on one deeper in the pile. you're reading document after document that's nearly identical, trying to figure out which ones are worth pushing forward.

ultimately i think the task is so herculean that most folks, whether they admit it or not, wind up responding most directly to folks whose backgrounds they personally relate to, or who manage to demonstrate the right amount of personality that makes you go "huh, i think we should talk to them a little more."

i present this all as a known problem, and i'm not trying to diminish the frustration of job hunters by saying "oh it's bad on the other side, too" because i absolutely know how much the experience of job hunting sucks and don't wish it on anyone. i just think that in the absence of people being willing to admit how haphazard and human-driven the whole process is, conspiracy theories about AI rejections and ChatGPT reviewing resumes en masse run amok.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#377
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law says I can’t submit the I-140 application, which I follow the law and I don’t submit it. As a people manager it’s a heartbreaking conversation to have - to tell a report their dream of staying beyond their visa is gone The law says every line manager needs to do their own industry pulse check every time an i-140 is submitted. And this is the only legal way to pulse check (advertise a ghost job). It would be m…

So… the interviewee doesn’t get the job even though they knocked it out of the park, and the H1B doesn’t get their visa because the other interviewee did well. Basically nobody wins, and the H1B person is out of a job in 2-3 years?

Exactly, and I don’t understand the fraud comments because this is exactly how US lawmakers intended the system the work. Easy to come for 3-6 years, hard to stay forever

It would be better if the “replaceable” part was determined on the federal level and not on the team level. That would get rid of all the ghost jobs

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's rather that at a society-wide level, having more software engineers at an overall lower salary can be more beneficial to the country than fewer engineers at a higher salary. Beneficial to owners of capital in said country. Not so beneficial to non owners of capital (also usually labor sellers) in said country.

It's not so binary. Economic growth and prosperity does benefit a broad swath of society.

btw the actual couch used by Marie Antionette is now on display at the San Francisco Legion of Honor.. a very expensive couch! at least a dozen people must have benefited economically from that couch.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of "Supply and Demand"?

Ah yes, if only we could mint experienced devs from thin air, your model would be perfectly sound!

Or maybe, devs could move from Company A to Company B that would pay them more money. What a terrible world that would be to live in.

Or companies in, say, SF could let people work remotely from Pittsburgh.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kind enough to share what kind of entrepreneurial work you're focusing on? Is it tech related in any way?

Yes and no. Primarily working on growing a pressure washing business so I can be utterly done with (full-time, employee) tech work. The other thing is an app / community for teaching meditation (a longtime passion of mine). I don't know if it will do well but if it nets me a half-dozen to a dozen students that I am instructing 1-1 via zoom for 20-30 minutes on a weekly basis when I FIRE here in the next five years I'…

Thanks a ton, I wish good luck and you a happy sane life.
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